MTW's gameplay can be summed up in one line

[Koga No Goshi]

and that line is:








THE ALMOHADS HAVE INVADED YOUR PROVINCE!

For those of you who are old school like me, you will know what I mean when I say that in the vanilla single player MTW, the Almohads bring back memories hardcore of the "Hojo Horde." Big time. I do not know that I have ever played a single game of MTW where the Almohads did not at some point take at least half of the map, and start aggressively attacking me. This usually results in throwing away their princes/kings in repeated attacks and ultimately turning into large swaths of rebel territories. (This usually means they re-emerge sooner or later.)

I just wanted to express this... I'm not asking for a fix or a mod or anything, just wondered if this summed up anyone else's experience of the faction AI's.

[caravel]

And just when you thought it was over... they reappear in Portugal.

I see this is your first post since 2004 Koga No Goshi, welcome back indeed.

[bondovic]

Yeah, once they whip the Spanish they're just silly. Those rich provinces, those bad boy militias, all that iron, early muslim boats and... camels! How can you miss?

[Ironsword]

My games can usually be summed up in two lines:

"...the pope asks you to cease hostilities within the next two years... etc."

and

"You have been excommunicated for your aggression towards... etc."

Oh, how could I forget this gem; "A large force of Mongol warriors.. etc."

[Koga No Goshi]

Thanks for the welcome back. Once upon a time I was an Off Topic moderator here, back in the golden days of Shogun: Total War. Was in one of the competitive clans (well, we weren't top 3 or anything, but we were a small group of decently skilled players) named Tenki.

I've been "re-immersing" in Total War lately. I always like to pop in Shogun once in awhile because I consider it the "Quintessential" Total War game and I love its simplicity and perfect unit balance. (Sometimes I get overwhelmed in all the later games at how MANY units you need to remember how to counter, and the many many layers of building trees needed to train or re-train specific unit types, it becomes a mess of micromanagement on occasion.) I like that MTW plays so much like the original Shogun but I do get a little overwhelmed with all the attempted assasinations and the AI's insane (ab)use of strategic units.

On a side note, I think it's a tremendous bummer that the older games aren't supported online, I especially miss Shogun. I remember Shogun wasn't hosted terribly long; I think sometime shortly before or after MTW came out they stopped hosting it online.

I like Rome Total War and MTW2 but I think they have a significantly different feel from the previous games. Some things feel the same like building trees and unit construction and most elements of the real time battle, but the strategic map differences are really hard to get used to for an oldbie like me. I like the idea of "controlling families" but I do wish you had more direct control over your families than simple yes/no's sometimes. MTW was neat letting you even marry direct relatives if you wanted to be absolutely sure heirs would be produced as early as possible (even though there's an ick factor of course) but I would love more features in future games, if they stick with a "control a family line" aspect, than simply "is this suitor acceptable? Y/N". I think the next logical evolution would be letting you develop factions within your faction... certain generals or family members more loyal to this one than that one, etc. More births overall would also be nice, it's terrible trying to spread five family members out amongst 30 provinces.

But yes... back on topic... those darn Almohads. I enjoy thrashing them but it just feels like I HAVE TO in every game, I wonder what it is about them that gives them such a huge edge under AI control. And the Mongols so weak! I swear, they never last more than 7 turns in my single player campaigns, even against other AI factions only.

[Monk]

And the Mongols so weak! I swear, they never last more than 7 turns in my single player campaigns, even against other AI factions only.

Turtle in Khazar with 10,000 troops then say that with a straight face... I dare you.

[Martok]

Thanks for the welcome back. Once upon a time I was an Off Topic moderator here, back in the golden days of Shogun: Total War. Was in one of the competitive clans (well, we weren't top 3 or anything, but we were a small group of decently skilled players) named Tenki.

Very cool; it's always nice to see one of the "Old Guard" honor us with your presence.

I've been "re-immersing" in Total War lately. I always like to pop in Shogun once in awhile because I consider it the "Quintessential" Total War game and I love its simplicity and perfect unit balance. (Sometimes I get overwhelmed in all the later games at how MANY units you need to remember how to counter, and the many many layers of building trees needed to train or re-train specific unit types, it becomes a mess of micromanagement on occasion.) I like that MTW plays so much like the original Shogun but I do get a little overwhelmed with all the attempted assasinations and the AI's insane (ab)use of strategic units.

Yeah, I find both STW and MTW to be compelling in their own ways. Like you, I love Shogun's clean simplicity of gameplay, and how it was relatively easy to determine the counter to each unit.

Conversely with MTW, I actually enjoy its increased complexity -- not just in terms of the interactions with the other factions, but also with your own characters. It's always been fun to watch a general "evolve" over time, and what kind of effects he can have on your kingdom. (Civil wars, anyone? ) I do agree, though, that the AI's use of agents makes me scratch my head at times, particularly in regards to assassins and inquisitors.

On a side note, I think it's a tremendous bummer that the older games aren't supported online, I especially miss Shogun. I remember Shogun wasn't hosted terribly long; I think sometime shortly before or after MTW came out they stopped hosting it online.

I want to say that had to do with CA switching publishers from EA to Activision, but I don't remember now. I concur, though, that it was a shame they shut down Shogun's MP servers as early as they did.

I like Rome Total War and MTW2 but I think they have a significantly different feel from the previous games. Some things feel the same like building trees and unit construction and most elements of the real time battle, but the strategic map differences are really hard to get used to for an oldbie like me. I like the idea of "controlling families" but I do wish you had more direct control over your families than simple yes/no's sometimes. MTW was neat letting you even marry direct relatives if you wanted to be absolutely sure heirs would be produced as early as possible (even though there's an ick factor of course) but I would love more features in future games, if they stick with a "control a family line" aspect, than simply "is this suitor acceptable? Y/N". I think the next logical evolution would be letting you develop factions within your faction... certain generals or family members more loyal to this one than that one, etc. More births overall would also be nice, it's terrible trying to spread five family members out amongst 30 provinces.

Yeah, I think the Total War series has yet to truly get the royal/dynastic family mechanism correct. I'm curious as to how it will work in Empire, as it looks like there's been some changes made from RTW/M2TW.

But yes... back on topic... those darn Almohads. I enjoy thrashing them but it just feels like I HAVE TO in every game, I wonder what it is about them that gives them such a huge edge under AI control.

I think the Almos' advantage can be primarily attributed to the following:

1.) Territory -- With the exception of Cyrenacia, the rest of their initial five provinces have a decent starting income....which can be even further improved, as most also have either mine-able resources (gold, silver, etc.) and/or profitable trade goods. Thus, they can afford to build a large army more quickly than most factions.

2.) Location -- Their starting position allows them to immediately concentrate their forces on just two fronts (Cyrenacia and Cordoba). So long as they don't have to worry about seaborne invasion, there's nothing to stop them from either attacking Egypt and/or moving further north into Iberia.

3.) Almohad Urban Militia -- What more is there to say about these guys? They're better than any other infantry unit in the beginning of the game, they're cheap, they have low build requirements, and they receive a +1 valour bonus if recruited in Grenada. Thus, the Almohads can quickly spam hordes of AUM and easily destroy almost any army that dares oppose them (at least for the first 50 years or so).

4.) Finally, I believe the Almos' AI "attitude" (or whatever it's called) in vanilla MTW is set to "aggressive", which allows them to take even greater advantage of their attributes.


In fact, it was due to some people complaining that they were too overpowered -- with, it must be admitted, a certain amount of justification -- that CA toned down the Caliphate in Viking Invasion by setting their AI attitude to "defensive". The problem was that this ended up being an over-correction, as now the Almos would only rarely attack other provinces. Indeed, they actually became the whipping boy for the Spanish, the latter of whom would (more often than not) expand to become one of the game's superpowers.

Fortunately, most mods seem to fix this so that the Almohads are more balanced. I know that in XL and the Pocket Mod, they're once again competitive with the Spanish, but not to the point of being overwhelming like they were in vanilla MTW.

And the Mongols so weak! I swear, they never last more than 7 turns in my single player campaigns, even against other AI factions only.

They're definitely underpowered in MTW 1.1, as I don't think I ever saw them appear with more than 5000 troops. They're much stronger in VI, as I now never see them with less than 18,000 troops. Often times it's double that, especially if whoever owns Khazar has stationed a large garrison there.

That said, however, they still don't always last very long. The Khan seems to have a death wish, and often manages to get himself killed before any of his heirs come of age.

[Togakure]

... Was in one of the competitive clans (well, we weren't top 3 or anything, but we were a small group of decently skilled players) named Tenki. ...

Were you friends with TenkiSoratoti/Panda? I still chat with him online from time to time. He's not involved in things TW these days, but was always fiercely loyal to Tenki, often referring to himself as the last active Tenki as Shogun MP faded into the twilight.

Just curious if you two knew each other. My guess is he'd enjoy hearing that one of his brethren has returned to the TW fold.

Welcome back.

[drone]

My games can usually be summed up in two lines:

"...the pope asks you to cease hostilities within the next two years... etc."

and

"You have been excommunicated for your aggression towards... etc."

Welcome back Koga No Goshi. You stopped posting before I joined the .Org, but it's always good to see the old guard return.

[Koga No Goshi]

Welcome back Koga No Goshi. You stopped posting before I joined the .Org, but it's always good to see the old guard return.

Why thank you. ;)

[Lokiss]

My games can usually be summed up in two lines:

"...the pope asks you to cease hostilities within the next two years... etc."

and

"You have been excommunicated for your aggression towards... etc."

^ For real, LOL.

[cambovenzi]

yeah, excomm is a pain.
GOTTA WASTE DEM ARABS INSTEAD

[Martok]

Welcome back, Koga No Goshi.

I just wanted to express this... I'm not asking for a fix or a mod or anything, just wondered if this summed up anyone else's experience of the faction AI's.

Yeah, the Almos are insane in MTW 1.1. I remember playing as the Spanish was always a major challenge, as I had to fend off repeated invasion waves sent by the Caliph. A pity they were nerfed in Viking Invasion.