The Gaming News Thread

[Crazed Rabbit]

She said that the PEGI system was poorly understood by parents and that many parents thought its 3+ to 18+ ratings referred to the game’s difficulty. This could mean that parents, who believed that their children were advanced, were at risk of buying inappropriate games.

Whaa...? Any evidence to support that? (EDIT: This is of course directed rhetorically at that woman)

I'm guessing the PEGI is better for gamers, just because the "violent games are destroying our youth! oh noes!" folks don't like the system.

CR

[Meneldil]

What a load of BS.

[frogbeastegg]

I'm a bit surprised froggy or one of our other Brits here didn't already post this

I avoid censorship and ratings discussions as a rule. Too many differing opinions going round and round in circles with little changing between revolutions.

Besides, I'm still trying to decide where on the scale of stupidity this falls. Scraping the system people do understand in favour of one many don't is supposed to help parents how exactly? I can't see it as anything other than a knee-jerk reaction in response to the vocal, misguided wailing certain groups have been making about games. The Byron report was supposed to declare them a public hazard and provide excuse to crack down on them, blaming them for society's ills. Thankfully she used her eyes and her brain and said nothing of the sort.

The decision has also got an element of cost cutting in it IMO. The BBFC needs government funding; PEGI doesn't. I think it was 7 jobs the BBFC cut in response to the announcement. 7 very well paid people, and and no further need to buy consoles etc.

PEGI is used in a lot of European countries and works successfully. The difference is that - as far as I understand it - none of those countries had an equivolent to the BBFC before adopting PEGI. Germany, the only country I know of with a similar system, still uses its own system. That's why Germany and, to a much lesser extent, the UK are considered to be more censorship oriented.

My question is: Is this good news overall for UK gamers? Or will PEGI likely be even more restrictive?

Whaa...? Any evidence to support that? (EDIT: This is of course directed rhetorically at that woman)

Both of these tie together.

PEGI is fine ... for a gamer like me. I understand what those symbols mean, and I don't mean in the sense that I know the fist represents violence. I mean I understand what violence in games can be. I understand that a game which is ok for a 12 year old might be unsuitable for a 7 year old for reasons like more detailed violence, an atmosphere of tension or fear, and so on. As a gamer I rather like PEGI; once you understand it and have the context to place it in you can get a good idea of what’s in a game.

I've worked with a couple of non-gamer parents with young children. Both made an effort to understand their child's hobby and to provide games which fit in with the boundaries they felt appropriate. Both of them spent a bit of time now and then watching the games their child played so they had some knowledge of what games are. Both very smart people. While they understood the concrete BBFC age ratings the PEGI ones left them confused. What is sexual content in a 12 rated game? Are we talking chaste kissing or nudity with the interesting parts obscured? What makes a 12 rated game with a scary icon milder than a 15 rated one with a scary icon? How is 12 rated language worse than 7 rated language? Why is Lego Star Wars' violence badge different to Overlord's? How are these ratings decided on anyway? I don't understand what particular content the discrimination badge is awarded for, and what on earth does "mild peril" mean?

The appearance of the PEGI age rating logo itself is a major stumbling block. The British public is trained to look for the BBFC logos and understands them because they are used on other media. The PEGI logos resemble the optional badges put on toys to show what age they are suitable for - in terms of mental advancement and choking hazards. So some parents are under the belief that little 6 year old Billy can play 12 rated games because he's so advanced for his age, and it's a good thing. Buying a game rated 3+ for your 6 year old is tantamount to admitting they are a very slow developer! That's why our new PEGI age ratings have had coloured backgrounds added; it's an effort to make it resemble the BBFC labels.

There's a larger factor in the PEGI=mental advancement misconception. BBFC is a brand. It's widely recognised. For decades this has been our age rating system; everyone understands it. If an entertainment product needs to be rated it will have a BBFC logo on it. If it doesn't then it won't. Simple as that. Remove the BBFC 18 from the box of a game and leave the PEGI one on it and hand it to a random person in the street, and ask if it's suitable for young children. Unless they know something about PEGI they will answer that it's not been rated so it must be ok. The BBFC doesn't rate games with lower ages; there's nothing below 15 because the bulk of games fall below 15 and the BBFC doesn't have the resources to assess games expected to come in at 12 etc. A PEGI 15 sat side by side with a BBFC 15 has a good chance to get the point home that PEGI is a rating too; a lone PEGI 12 doesn't, especially when films can be rated with a BBFC 12, PG and U. So PEGI is up a creek without a paddle until you reach 15, and when you reach 15 people are looking for something else anyway.

Quite aside from label recognition, lots of non-gaming adults don't fully understand why a rating has been given out. Because they haven't played a scary game they don't know how much that can affect the player. Blood, violence, bad language - well a game is a toy, isn't it? It's just going to be like one of Timmy's cartoons. Perception of video games is shifting, slowly but surely. Each generation has more gamers in it, and more people who grew up with games. There's still a wide spread view that games are aimed at children or are all silly harmless fun like Rockband. That's where most of the hysteria over games like GTA4 comes from. Games are for children and this game is full of adult content; next we'll be handing out porn at primary schools! Some people cannot get it through their thick skulls that games can be aimed purely and squarely at adults.

To stir up more confusion, games have had multiple rating systems in my lifetime. We swap from one to another with little warning and less explanation as to why. The BBFC has been the only constant; it's been the source of context for the new ratings, and a means to bridge the gap between the old ones. People hold on more tightly to what they are familiar with when things change frequently.

So what does this changeover mean? It means that people who already struggle to understand what game ratings mean are now going to be lost. No BBFC label on the box will be taken to mean that the game doesn't need an age rating. It means that a medium which isn't always taken seriously is now even more 'for children'. It means there are going to be many sales assistants who get fined for breaking the new law; it's hard enough to tell if someone looks over 18, let alone over 12. The bulk of those of us who do understand it all, and who do know what it all means, are too old for the ratings to apply to, and so the change doesn't affect us one jot unless we have children, in which case we will continue as before.

The initial press release I saw further muddied matters by declaring that selling a 12 rated game to a minor will now be a finable offence. A minor is someone under 18.

In order for this to work at all a major effort needs to be made to make the general public aware of the ratings and their meanings. Frequent TV spots, pages in newspapers, big fat posters behind the till in all shops selling games, leaflets, more. Heh, in some cases a guy with a megaphone shouting the meaning right down the person's ear wouldn't go amiss.

When PEGI first appeared it had little fanfare and little effort was made to explain it to people; you had to seek the information for yourself. ELSPA had little explanation when we used that. The BBFC as it applies to games had little explanation. Why should I believe the new PEGI will be different? It won't be sufficiently explained because the government doesn't care to put full weight behind it. Further, the timing is dreadful. A major effort would cost a lot of money. Our economy is ailing and people won't like money being spent on such a 'trivial' thing. Who cares about ages on toys when people are losing their jobs by the thousands?

Case in point, I only know about the changeover because I saw a news blip on the Eurogamer website. So they're already failing to inform the people who need to know.

I'm worried about the fallout of this. A system people don't understand and new laws which will inevitably be broken - I can see the anti-games faction whipping up a storm with the ammo this move will provide. That store broke the law and sold a 12 rated game to a child! What purveyors of vileness they are! Ban this sick filth! And why are we following a European system anyway?! Who are they to judge what is appropriate for a British citizen?!

...

As far as restriction goes, under our current dual system PEGI is less restrictive. The BBFC can demand cuts and ban products; PEGI can't. PEGI is based on the developers filling in a tick list to declare what content their games has; the BBFC is based on a game being taken out of the developer's hands and played. Self regulatory versus outside regulation. Developers know exactly what to include in order to obtain a certain PEGI rating.

Once PEGI takes over completely I'm not sure what will happen. Theoretically at least, any game which goes above whatever their 18 rating is will be banned because unrated games cannot be sold and there's no equivolent to America's AO. I don't know if it's even possible to exceed their 18 rating.

[drone]

ZeniMax, parent company of Bethesda, buys id Software.

This could be good, this could be bad. I'm not sure which.

[Tratorix]

ZeniMax, parent company of Bethesda, buys id Software.

This could be good, this could be bad. I'm not sure which.

That probably depends on whether or not you think you'll enjoy The Elder Scrolls V: Doomblivion.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Oblivion with guns? Oh wait a minute...

[TinCow]

Lucasarts is releasing some of their older catalog of games on Steam. All games are updated to work on XP and Vista; the current list is:

Armed and Dangerous
Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis
Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: The Graphic Adventure
LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventure
LOOM
Star Wars Battlefront II
Star Wars Republic Commando
Star Wars Starfighter
The Dig
Thrillville: Off the Rails
Secret Of Monkey Island Special Edition

Of further note are comments that indicate that the rest of the old Lucasarts games will eventually appear as well. This is huge news if, like me, you wish you could play TIE Fighter again with modern graphics.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Lucasarts is releasing some of their older catalog of games on Steam. All games are updated to work on XP and Vista; the current list is:

~snip~

Of further note are comments that indicate that the rest of the old Lucasarts games will eventually appear as well. This is huge news if, like me, you wish you could play TIE Fighter again with modern graphics.

Amen! I will probably end up spending up to two hundred dollars on the eventual "everything and the kitchen sink" version of this.