What is wrong with having a Muslim as president?

**rvg** · 10-23-2008, 19:58

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Why would it be wrong for Islam to become the dominant culture of somewhere?

I just look at muslim countries and cannot help but notice that most of them are having serious trouble maintaining religious freedom. Turks have managed to do it, Lebanon seems okay, but that's about it. Countries with distinct muslim majorities do not make life easy for non-muslims.

**Koga No Goshi** · 10-23-2008, 20:05

Originally Posted by rvg

I just look at muslim countries and cannot help but notice that most of them are having serious trouble maintaining religious freedom. Turks have managed to do it, Lebanon seems okay, but that's about it. Countries with distinct muslim majorities do not make life easy for non-muslims.

Aren't we in this thread discussing how people in a Christian dominated country can't get into office unless they're Christian?

**rvg** · 10-23-2008, 20:07

Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi

Aren't we in this thread discussing how people in a Christian dominated country can't get into office unless they're Christian?

They can. At least in theory. In most muslim countries the opposite is impossible even in theory, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

**Koga No Goshi** · 10-23-2008, 20:13

Originally Posted by rvg

They can. At least in theory. In most muslim countries the opposite is impossible even in theory, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

That's not really a feature of Islam. It's a feature of a relatively still young religion, IMHO. People who think it's anything inherently more violent or imperialist about Islam have a remarkable undereducation about western history and Christianity.

**LittleGrizzly** · 10-23-2008, 20:16

Another factor is the wealth and size of the middle class, if america slowly became islamic i doubt it would slowly lose it freedoms

**rvg** · 10-23-2008, 20:19

Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi

That's not really a feature of Islam. It's a feature of a relatively still young religion, IMHO...

Well, it's a feature of most muslim-dominated countries that are run by muslims. We can argue all day about "why", "what" and "how", but does it really matter? Islam might be younger than Christianity by some 600 years, but it's still almost 1400 years old. Seems to be that it has had plenty of time to evolve into something more palatable.

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 10-23-2008, 20:31

I would have no objection to a muslim serving as president.

Their stance on the issues and probable policy orientation would be of great importance.

As it stands, being a muslim would be a significant disadvantage in national elections.

**Koga No Goshi** · 10-23-2008, 23:19

Originally Posted by rvg

Well, it's a feature of most muslim-dominated countries that are run by muslims. We can argue all day about "why", "what" and "how", but does it really matter? Islam might be younger than Christianity by some 600 years, but it's still almost 1400 years old. Seems to be that it has had plenty of time to evolve into something more palatable.

Do you really want to get into what Christianity was doing when it was 1400 years old?

Molten metal being pored into bodily cavities comes to mind.

My point still stands. To say that it's something "special" or unique to Islam that makes it "violent" or "intolerant" requires one to close one's eyes to western civilization's history.

**rvg** · 10-23-2008, 23:23

Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi

Do you really want to get into what Christianity was doing when it was 1400 years old?

Molten metal being pored into bodily cavities comes to mind.

My point still stands. To say that it's something "special" or unique to Islam that makes it "violent" or "intolerant" requires one to close one's eyes to western civilization's history.

Are you serious? You actually saying that islam is *entitled* to 600 more years backwardness?

**Louis VI the Fat** · 10-23-2008, 20:37

Each religion has norms, values, codes of conduct. Subject to time, place and person, but existent nonetheless. And I do not hesitate to have clear political preferences between them. I prefer a humanist liberal over a nationalist or a communist. Likewise, I prefer a Catholic over a Muslim. And a Protestant over a Catholic. A Jew over both. But not an Orthodox one. And most of all, I'd prefer an atheist.

Religions are not all equally peaceful, or tolerant, or conducive to intellectual endevour simply by virtue of being a big, established religion. No more than that all political currents are equally peaceful or tolerant. If religions were all equal, nobody could tell a Muslim apart from a Catholic. As it is though, I can usually tell a Protestant from a mile away.

That is as concerns religion. As for 'Muslim' in the sense of a cultural Muslim, or a person of Islamic origins, I couldn't care less if you are.

For those about to squeak: I prefered the devout Catholic candidate last election. Since, of course, if you leave your religion outside of public policy, I don't care what you believe. If you do drag it into politics (quite apart from my not voting for you exactly because of this) I will consider your religion and I do have my preferences.

**rvg** · 10-23-2008, 20:43

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

...And most of all, I'd prefer an atheist...

Wouldn't an Agnostic (as opposed to atheist) be the pinnacle of openmindness? I assume that was your criteria.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 10-23-2008, 20:48

No, an agnostic is just as wrong as all you other deluded people. Only we, atheists, are tolerant and openminded.

[Which, I feel the need to point out since these things always go wrong, was a joke]

**yesdachi** · 10-23-2008, 20:43

Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi

That's not really a feature of Islam. It's a feature of a relatively still young religion, IMHO. People who think it's anything inherently more violent or imperialist about Islam have a remarkable undereducation about western history and Christianity.

What the religion is and how it is practiced are two different things and comparing how Christians of today act to how they acted during the crusades is way different than comparing how Muslims of today act to how they have throughout antiquity – they are relatively the same where Christians have changed dramatically.