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Thread: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

  1. #1

    Question Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Hi, I'm new here but have played MTW1 and recently got MTW2 gold edition.
    I've read your guides and they're pretty good :P.
    But anyway, I'm playing as England in a war against Scotland. I'm in a battle where i Have about 4 spear militia and mailed knights, a prince and 2 longbow men. My enemy has mostly town militia, peasant archers, a general of some sort and remnants of highland nobles and border horses.
    It isn't a siege, just a battle. My enemy has quite high land and i sent some peasants out, when i had them to check their units, find a possible flank and attempt to lure some of their units to mine. The peasants got slaughtered within seconds by their archers and it would probably take ages to get my units into a flanking position since the land is so high.

    I Also have some high ground but not as high as the enemies and the opposition don't look like attacking anytime soon. There is a big plain separating us and they have some tree's at the foot of their hill.
    What should i do?
    Thanks, adal8or.

  2. #2
    Revolutionary Member The New Che Guevara's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    I'd say wait it out... but the AI doesn't move that much.

    Best option I can think of is try outflanking with a cavalry unit in a loose formation to avoid too many losses. Either that or shove your army in loose and go on the offensive with and all out frontal attack...

    you could also get a poor unit (such as peasants) to lure their units forward and then use the cavalry to flank them.

    You might want to wait for other people to add their ideas... I dont trust my military brain currently... I think he's planning a coup.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Nevermind, i decided to try stuff while i was waiting for a reply and thank the lord i usually bring heavy cavalry with me.
    I sent cavalry Up the hill at the enemies left flank and the enemy where moving around a bit..
    A unit of peasant archers were just waiting for the charge at the flanks so i charged all 4 units of cavalry in and they hit the enemy full force, i pulled them back and almost all the enemy units had less than half their original amount and they were routing en masse, so i got my cavalry to go after the general and caught him. Then got the remainder of their forces.
    I was completely blown away by the damage though, but I guess that proves the power of cavalry.

  4. #4
    Member Member Gaiseric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Welcome adal8or, I am glad that you like the game so far. One important thing to do when your new to the game is to save your game before every battle. This alows you to try differant strategies to see which ones work best and to learn about unit abilities, terrain, and battle manovers. If the battle didnt go so well you can always reload and try again. Also stop by the forums from time to time to learn new strategies and to talk to friends. Good luck with the rest of your game

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    Member Member Marauder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    I like Gaiseric's saving idea. I'd save before you move your army into attack. Since you usually have a few possible spaces surrounding the enemy, if you have the low-ground on one square you can try another. Simply reload and move your army into another position and try again until you have a more even playing field. Some mountain passes and such will always be at a disadvantage, so you'll have to charge the hill eventually.

  6. #6
    Member Member tellapan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    I can see the attraction of multiple saves and re-attempts at the same battle but dont you think that route undermines and destroys the game. To keep re-playing until you get the result you want removes any challenge in the game. Make the decision to attack or not, stand by your decision even if it results in a bloody nose and play the game in the spirit it was intended. But thats just my view

  7. #7
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Was it really necessary to resurrect a 7 month old thread?
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 08-19-2009 at 13:17.
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    Member Member Viking Prince's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by tellapan View Post
    I can see the attraction of multiple saves and re-attempts at the same battle but dont you think that route undermines and destroys the game. To keep re-playing until you get the result you want removes any challenge in the game. Make the decision to attack or not, stand by your decision even if it results in a bloody nose and play the game in the spirit it was intended. But thats just my view
    Well since it has been brought back from the dead (not that matters really, this is not front page news):

    When I first started playing the game, I saved and replayed some battles a dozen times. It really helped to learn how the game worked. I do not think that ruins the game either. I just call this practice like shagging balls with a 4-iron out of a bunker. Without practice, how are you ever going to enjoy playing the game?


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    H°vedsmann i Leidangen Member Zajuts149's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    Was it really necessary to resurrect a 7 month old thread?
    Maybe not necessary, but fun. It's better to discuss on old threads than have new ones with an old topic crop up every second week. This forum is pretty dormant, as a lot of players have fallen for the ETW scam.

    I welcome a discussion on tactics. As has been pointed out, it is usually enough to wait out the AI player, even if you're attacking. Sometimes the AI player will wedge itself in some advantgeous spot, and has to be pryed out with Heavy Cav or Infantry. The use of longer ranged missiles can also induce the AI to come out of hiding. If it has significant height advantage, even short range missiles will be able to duel with longbows/composite bows/arbalests.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    Was it really necessary to resurrect a 7 month old thread?
    Boy, this is really welcoming. Sorry youĺre so annoyed guy.

    If the enemy is in a real advantageous position with allot of missile troops I sometimes retreat and leave the dance. I will try to come from another direction if I can on the next turn. I had a battle the other day in which the AI set me up right in front of a 90 degree cliff with the enemy on top.
    If I have some missile calvary I try to use them to harass and disrupt the enemy's missile troops (since they're set on skirmish). Some times you can get their calvary or spearmen to chase you also which I love. Then I will go ahead with a frontal assault advancing in loose formation until I get close enough then bring them back in tight formation. I think the trick is to get the enemy to start scrambling around and get them out of formation if you can. This should take the heat off enough to make your frontal assault.
    "This is no way for a leader to behave, but in battle it's beyond belief."

  11. #11

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Try to prey on their impetuous nature, this worked really well on Rome against barbarians and such 'brave' units but can still work on Medieval. This is the act of luring, a few units charge the enemy at a weak point but straight after initial contact have them flee and hopefully the enemy will then chase the routing enemies and fall into your traps. What is this called? The fake retreat or something?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    I am surprised the AI stood its ground

    I started playing the game again just recently after watching a bunch of "Barbarian" shows on the History channel - got me craving a war game like this.

    But it's too bad the AI is very dumb. Always charging forward, never forming up good defenses. On every battle I just stage a defensive position and wait for the AI to make their frontal assault. They never try to flank, hold their ground, or make any tactical moves.

    Although maybe I didn't set the difficulty high enough?

    I dont even remember being asked about difficult when I started this game... maybe I was in such a hurry to play I just glossed over that part..

    Is there a setting that makes the AI fight good but does not handicap you like by making units cost more or cities produce less? I hate those handicaps thats why I usually leave difficulty levels at normal.

  13. #13
    King Philippe of France Senior Member _Tristan_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    The difficulty level doesn't change much but I would advocate leaving at it medium on the campaign map and very hard on battles, makes them more challenging...

    Or if you're willing, try a mod like Lands to Conquer Gold, which makes the AI a little less dumb...
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tristan de Castelreng View Post
    The difficulty level doesn't change much but I would advocate leaving at it medium on the campaign map and very hard on battles, makes them more challenging...

    Or if you're willing, try a mod like Lands to Conquer Gold, which makes the AI a little less dumb...
    Is it possible to alter my battle map difficulty setting now or I need to restart?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    I'm gonna have to be the odd guy out and disagree with everyone. The solution to this problem is not "charge anyway" or "wait it out." The right answer to this dilemma is actually found on the campaign map, not the battle map.

    Problem:

    So, you're enemy has this army, and you need to take it out, but it's sitting pretty up on top of an easily defended hill, just waiting for you to slog your way up there and bring the fight to them... while they've got the bighuge advantage. What to do?

    Solution:

    Take your army somewhere else. Go sack a couple of cities that his army-on-a-hill could be defending (but aren't, cuz they're on a dumb hill somewhere). This forces him to make a lose/lose decision: Stay there on that hill, or chase you down and fight you.

    - If he stays on the hill, his entire army is essentially sitting out the war. While your guys are rampaging through his kingdom, his guys are getting fat and costing him upkeep. You win.
    - If he chases you, then he loses his lofty high ground, and has to fight you on even footing (or, if you're good at moving strategically, you'll be on the hill this time). You win.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    I prefer light cavalry tactics over the M2 style all-out heavy cavalry charge. Quite often in M2 it is enough to lure the missiles into a disadvantageous position (the AI will send them forward without support) and hit-and-run them with cavalry. Even a few hits will whittle down their numbers, and after that the player can use archers to whittle down the enemy. Or the player can simply keep them guessing by running cavalry in loose formation, "looking for an opening", but quite often in M2 this is waste of good horses, since the AI is quite predictable.

    Or, the horses may keep them guessing while the attacking infantry force maneuvers into a position. When the unsupported archers start targeting the approaching infantry, there's typically a gap for the cavalry to cause some disarray among the enemy archers. Maybe the general's (cavalry) unit can be lured to an ambush or to be taken down by missiles.

    This can be difficult against Milan, since their crossbows are so tough, and there's typically quite a few of them around. Then again, Milan doesn't seem to use the static approach against me at least.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Enemy has high ground, what to do?

    Don't worry about individual armies, just make sure you prepare full stack army (or near to it) with a good variety of troops and siege one of their cities. IT will most likely result in the enemy sending an army to attack your siege-force, and you will have to fight A - the settlement garrison and B - the other army they've sent. So, you might be like 2 to 1 odds .. BUT most likely it will be on more level terrain and you will be on the defensive so it's a lot easier than a situation where you have to fight 1 on 1 odds but the enemy is atop a steep hill or moutainside!
    IF you're talking about just the one battle, and it must be accomplished, move your men up slow enough all together towards the enemy. Just before you get in range of their archers, charge all your horsemen into the enemy and have your own archers run as close as they can get to the enemy. let your horse (Even ur general) swing their swords a bit and then have your horsemen RUN back towards your other men. Hopefully your own archers are in range and firing... Depends how well the cav charged worked. Your own infantry should just about be behind your achers by now - make sure they've been walking this whole time. Stop them when they reach your archers. Now it depends on a few things. A - how well intact the enemies missle troops are doing, if they're wayyy out shooting your archers - you've got to engage because your archers are shooting but not killing much- walk your spear men towards the enemy and then charge at the last moment, have them engage a while and use your own cav to hit them on the flanks - you may even send your own archers into the fray to melee (esp if they're longbowmen). IN situation B - your initial cav charge killed a bunch of their archers, and your longbowmen are out-shooting the enemy. Even though your men are being killed by their archers, you are killing more of theirs so you can prepare to whittle them down a bit before charging. Situation C - after your intial cavalry charge , or at any other time, the enemy charges down the hill at you - get your foot troops to try and run back a bit meanwhile your horse charge up the hill, see if you can get your cav at a higher point than their men - at which point meet the charge with your foot troops, wait until almost all the enemy has engaged you -even if it looks like ur about to lose just wait, and then charge into their rear with ur horse.

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