Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

  1. #1
    Member Member amritochates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Samarkhand
    Posts
    145

    Question Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Ok, please correct me if I am wrong, but it appears to me that CA in its infinite wisdom did not consider worth the while to correct the bugged 2H animations even with 3 patches for M2TW till date , or is their some other unknown factor that I am ignorant of ??

    The reason I am inquiring with regard to this is due to an anomaly in my present campaign. I have
    M2TW patched up tp 1.2 and am playing DLV 4.0PE- no other modifications. Yesterday in my HRE game, I sieged Breslau, and during the assault my 4 dismounted mailed knights, supported by 2 dismounted Frankish mercenary knights, ie a total of 480 men lost to the following:

    1. A unit of Templar Foot Knights 91men
    2. 2 units of Town militia 226men
    3. A single bodyguard unit 50men
    Total 367men

    My troops were led by my Faction Leader. After my ballistae blew out the gates I sent in the above, and they failed to break through, not only that they caused 20-25% casaulties only. If this MTW, I would know that I lost due to the squeeze factor, but I am aware that this feature was discontinued from series since MTW-VI.

    So what is wrong then??
    In the three years of war, necessity gave birth to invention. During those three years, we built bombs, we built rockets, we designed and built our own delivery systems. For three years, blockaded without hope of imports, we maintained engines, machines, and technical equipment. We spoke to the world through a telecommunications system engineered by local ingenuity. In three years of freedom, we had broken the technological barrier. In three years, we became the most civilized, the most technologically advanced black people on earth."
    - General Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu


  2. #2
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,585
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Animations have not been fixed, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    The org will be org until everyone calls it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

  3. #3
    Member Member PBI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,176

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Well, they have been partially fixed in that they now perform properly against cavalry, but they still almost never inflict casualties on infantry other than in the charge. Goodness knows why it hasn't been fixed given that together with the pike bug it seems to be the thing people complain about most.

  4. #4
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    *points at signature*
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  5. #5
    Member Member PBI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,176

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Oh yeah, sorry FactionHeir, I was going to mention VanillaMod but forgot.

    Actually, I'm thinking of trying it out for my next vanilla campaign.

  6. #6
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    I mean the 2H anim fixes, not the mod
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  7. #7

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    The 2-handers seem to work fine in Retrofit Mod. Varangian Guard can chop up pikemen rather handily. Haven't all the Mods fixed the problem?

  8. #8
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    I think in Retrofit, they chop them up because they might have increased the attack and defense ratings of varangians drastically and reduced the secondary for pikemen?

    I mean even in unmodded varangians can generally kill pikemen, but they get beaten by swordsmen militia for instance.

    Part is balance, part is animation, but the animation part can help not boosting the 2H stats so much that battle odds become meaningless.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    My other 2-handers seemed to work ok. The Scottish Highland swordmen and the HRE Forlorn Hope I clearly remember doing well and not having slow movements. The Varangians seem to have fast movements when attacking pikemen. Now others such as axemen just stand there and seem to parry the pikes and get in almost no swipes. Maybe the Varangians armor helps them get through without taking a bad hit so that they get swings in.

  10. #10
    Member Member amritochates's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Samarkhand
    Posts
    145

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Faction Heir: *points at signature*

    Actually I did download your 2H animations before posting this, I just wanted to be sure before implementing them. Will try out tonight and report back.



    Maybe the Varangians armor helps them get through without taking a bad hit so that they get swings in.

    Yep, you got that right, with their armor/defence ratings boosted up, they perform as expected as long as on the defensive.

    Still I have to comment that it is truly a sad state of affair, if a company is incapable of patching a problem that was reported when the game was orignally launched, that too after 3 patches till date.

    It just confirms that my approach is right: buy TW games at least a year or more after release, once they enter the bargain bin. I mean 10$ is exactly what the game is worth at vanilla. I will probably buy Kingdoms then next year after the christmas rush is over, and they are looking to clear out the shelves for new releases.
    In the three years of war, necessity gave birth to invention. During those three years, we built bombs, we built rockets, we designed and built our own delivery systems. For three years, blockaded without hope of imports, we maintained engines, machines, and technical equipment. We spoke to the world through a telecommunications system engineered by local ingenuity. In three years of freedom, we had broken the technological barrier. In three years, we became the most civilized, the most technologically advanced black people on earth."
    - General Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu


  11. #11
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    3,818

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by amritochates View Post
    It just confirms that my approach is right: buy TW games at least a year or more after release, once they enter the bargain bin. I mean 10$ is exactly what the game is worth at vanilla. I will probably buy Kingdoms then next year after the christmas rush is over, and they are looking to clear out the shelves for new releases.
    My approach is to not buy any more TW games until CA cleans up its act. I won't be shelling even $9.99 for E:TW.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  12. #12

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    I closely watched a combat between 2-handed axemen and pavaise crossbowmen last night. The axes were swung about just as often as the swords were. A lot of parrying and poking however; it looked rather stupid at x1 speed, but I guess the combat and animation are working.

  13. #13
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Pavise crossbow swords don't swing as often as swordsmen swords I think.
    Also, the thing that is problematic about the 2H anims is that their fast anims cannot kill (non lethal) and their slowest two anims are lethal and those get interrupted most of the time pre-fix.

    Against mounted enemies, they only use fast anims and those are lethal agaisnt cavalry only
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  14. #14
    Høvedsmann i Leidangen Member Zajuts149's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Trondheimr, Norvegr
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by FactionHeir View Post
    Pavise crossbow swords don't swing as often as swordsmen swords I think.
    Also, the thing that is problematic about the 2H anims is that their fast anims cannot kill (non lethal) and their slowest two anims are lethal and those get interrupted most of the time pre-fix.

    Against mounted enemies, they only use fast anims and those are lethal agaisnt cavalry only
    Hi FactionHeir,

    Can you give a brief description of what you have done to fix the 2H bug?
    "Ar scal risa
    sa er annars vill
    fe eþa fior hafa;
    sialdan liggiandi vlfr
    ler vm getr,
    ne sofandi maþr sigr."
    -Hàvamàl

  15. #15
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Here you go:
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...00&postcount=3

    If used in a setting of my mod, there's also added balancing, but that's not absolutely necessary as the files alone should do a lot to fix it even in an otherwise unmodded game.
    Last edited by FactionHeir; 08-14-2008 at 14:51.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  16. #16
    Høvedsmann i Leidangen Member Zajuts149's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Trondheimr, Norvegr
    Posts
    77

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Thanks!
    Does that mean that DEK and DNK have lethality on all their attack animations?
    Is it difficult to mod these animations? I especially want to speed up archers..
    "Ar scal risa
    sa er annars vill
    fe eþa fior hafa;
    sialdan liggiandi vlfr
    ler vm getr,
    ne sofandi maþr sigr."
    -Hàvamàl

  17. #17
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    No, lethalities cannot be changed without giving them different anims, which will look odd (say giving 2H axe a halberd or 2H sword anim). What I did was make those anims a bit faster and their block duration shorter, so they tend to waste less time using them. The lethal slow anims were sped up to increase their usefulness. The anims that are used against both infantry and cavalry were slwoed down somewhat to not make them too powerful against cavalry (they perform better than spears otherwise).

    I was initially wanting to remove some anims altogether, but that doesn't seem to work.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  18. #18
    Member Member PBI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,176

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    So am I right in getting the impression that all 2-handers are bugged, but some are more bugged than others?

    TBH I avoid all 2-handers like the plague and have done so since my early painful experiences of confidently sending my heavy billmen and DEKs to butcher units of light cavalry only to watch in horror as they simply stood around being slaughtered.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    FactionHeir: Your 'Improved2HAnimations' mod sounds great.
    Just one question; if i install this, will my old savegames still work on it, or will it only work when i start a new game?

  20. #20
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Its savegame compatible, and doesn't need a mod switch (but it will then overwrite your normal animations)
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  21. #21
    Member Member Komutan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Istanbul, Turkey
    Posts
    154

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Does this problem exist in Kingdoms patch 1.5 too?

  22. #22

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    I recently installed Medieval 2 Total War Gold, the German edition.

    - It was patched to 1.3, with 1.3 just being a patch to make different MTW versions compatible for online play, actually. So it was basically 1.2.
    - Kingdoms was 1.04, I patched it to 1.05.

    I also downloaded Faction Heir's 2H anim fix and without further mods (I do not know what he did in vanilla, I only downloaded the fixed 2H anims) it makes two handers too strong.

    The historical battle of Pavia becomes very easy with the new 2h anims. Victory guaranteed.
    With the "unfixed" 2H animations, however, it is well balanced!

    I tried some 1 vs 1 fights: HRE Zweihander vs different pike and spear units.

    The fixed 2h anims did usually more damage and won faster.
    BUT the unfixed 2h anims were good, too. They once lost due to a charge, and took longer, took more damage, but in the end also won, often easily, too.

    Later I tested vs Cavalry, hardly any difference.


    The file date of the animations is: 5. Oct .2007, 12:02



    I really did not notice 2h units underperforming.

    Or which other units should I have tested (please be specific!), axemen, halberdiers...???

  23. #23
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    2H vs spears (not pikes) and other 1H sword types.

    Anims without changes to balancing won't work of course, which is why VM balances units according to new anims.

    Note that in unmodded M2TW, 2H units have very high attack ratings, hence when they do eventually hit, its usually a kill, but the thing is that usually they don't get to complete a lethal attack anim.

    Historical battles are balanced by CA according to bugged anims and you will also notice them being somewhat out of whack in regards to shielded units doing better due to the shield bug having been fixed back in 1.2.

    The argument in this thread is in regards to comparing 2H anims vs infantry and pre 1.2 anims with post 1.2 anims vs cavalry.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  24. #24
    Cthonic God of Deception Member ULC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    In the swirling maddening chaos of the cosmos unseen to man...
    Posts
    4,138

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    I have a question - is it possible to actually make the faster animations "lethal" at all?

  25. #25
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    You could use the related and pretty much visually identical halberd and 2H sword ones I guess.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  26. #26
    Cthonic God of Deception Member ULC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    In the swirling maddening chaos of the cosmos unseen to man...
    Posts
    4,138

    Default Re: Are 2H animations still bugged in 1.2 ??

    Ah, there would be were my confusion lied - when I think of "2hander" animations, I think of all units under it collectively - I had no idea that the swords and halberds were more effective because the faster animations were lethal.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO