Israel/Palestine... Why?

[drone]

wait- how come im the one who "started" this thread? i didnt. don did.
just letting everyone know....

If I'm not mistaken, the thread wasn't started, just split off from the other thread by the moderators with the poll added. Your post from the other thread was the oldest, so you get post#1, (which to the forum code gives you creator credits).

Where's the option for they're both as bad as each other and quite frankly im sick of hearing about them continuously blow each other up?

I believe that option is Gah!, which happens to be "winning".

[Incongruous]

Palestine, to me it is almost black and white, good & evil. To me Israel is the colonial occupier and a brutal one at that, which shows no sign of ever treating the Palestinians as human beings or allowing them to create a state. It also annoys me that Israelis somehow thought that they would not be bombed by the Palestinians, it is a the simple application of logic, Israel has been founded upon Palestinian land and it now continues to take more. Rule one of Imperial adventures is, you will bleed for it, Israel is bleeding for the crime of colonisation and racism.

To me it is the right of any occupied people to fight back, I see no difference in the way Israel bombs hostpitals and schools and the way Palestinians blow up school buses, except in the death toll and the idea behind them. The Israelis murder Palestinians to get rid of them, to continue the expansion of their zionist dream, the Palestinians blow themselves up becasue they now have nowhere else to go, the Gazans live in refugee camps and are expeposed to brutality on a daily basis, they have lived no other life. The Israelis take away their food and destroy their homes, they shoot them when they protest peacefully. Then the West, that most disgustingly hypocritical of civilizations dares to tell them about peacefull solutions? Lokk, they say, look at what happened yesterday at the dividing wall! It is of no consequence, because the West, following Washington's lead, does not care about the Palestinians.

And so, when these young men and women (some of them university students) have had their families murdered or brutalised, they see no other way, and they are right, they strap a bomb onto their bodies. They walk into an Israeli school bus, and their despair, anger and pain is so strong, they see only enemies in the faces of children and they set it off. Children are no longer children and life is no longer worth lving.

I hate Israel, because they forced a people so close to the edge that they have no other way out other than to kill.
An Israeli soldier kills because he is ordered to a Palestinain blows himself up because he has lost everything. This is the difference.

[Marshal Murat]

The Israelis take away their food and destroy their homes, they shoot them when they protest peacefully. Then the West, that most disgustingly hypocritical of civilizations dares to tell them about peacefull solutions? Lokk, they say, look at what happened yesterday at the dividing wall! It is of no consequence, because the West, following Washington's lead, does not care about the Palestinians.

I'd like to see any news about Israel killing "peacefully protesting" Palestinians because I haven't seen anything that would indicate that the Palestinians have tried the non-violent approach to solving this problem. If anything, many in the "West" care just as much about Palestine as they do about Israel. The media roundly blamed Israel for using excessive force against Palestine, I heard of many who disapproved of Israeli policy against Palestine.

I think Martin Luther King Jr. said, about using violence to accomplish domestic goals, that were one to begin a violent campaign against their "oppressors", then the "oppressors" feel justified in responding in kind. I think that for all attempts to make this an international issue, it's more a domestic issue. If the African-Americans in this country began a campaign of violence and rocket attacks then we would respond in kind, avoiding International action. It's reasonable to assume that both sides are justified in their actions. I however, roundly condemn Palestinian tactics against Israel. While Israel does kill civilians in it's attacks against Palestine, they are primarily concerned with military targets. They've moderated their "imperialist" tendencies, in my view, and have started to see reason. Palestinian tactics deliberately target civilians hoping to somehow "cow" the Israeli population into giving up their war against Palestine. It's a stupid tactic, and one that has only bred ill-will and mistrust between the two side rather than solving anything. The random violence and "terrorism" that the PLO and Hamas has used has only resulted in stronger and stronger backlash against the groups rather than making Israel respond to their demands.

To say the least, this problem can be solved. South Africa has solved her problems, moving from one of the most oppressive systems in human history to being *relatively* democratic. It wouldn't have helped if the ANC began a rocket campaign against South African cities from Botswana or Mozambique. What did help was the realization by Botha that he would eventually have to work with the ANC to maintain his countries' integrity. So he began secret talks with Mandela and other ANC members, trying to work out how they could rectify the situation. Palestinians have to realize that simply blowing themselves up or shooting rockets into Israel solves nothing. They need to change their government (even if Hamas tries to kill them), have responsible lower-level talks with Israel to wake them up to the situation at hand, to at least alleviate the conditions in Gaza and the West Bank.

[Tribesman]

If I'm not mistaken, the thread wasn't started, just split off from the other thread

Yes , which is why there is a reponse to fragonys nonsense in this topic but fragonys nonsense remains in the other .

[Husar]

Nice, another middle eastern Schlammschlacht thread.
And again we have the usual suspects supportin the evil Palestinians, and they even think they can convince everybody...oh, wait...
It's almost like the positions in the discussions are as hard as the positions of the politicians over there, no wonder noone can solve that because they're all the same.
When you cannot admit the other side may have a point here or there you cannot solve such a conflict, it's pretty simple, then again you may not even want to solve the conflict because conflicts are nice and preferable, when you watch them from your sofa in a relatively safe distance anyway.

Also convincing people seems really hard nowadays, I probably try it as well now and then but it feels a lot more rewarding to just troll a bit, I mean you get warning points for it.

[Meneldil]

The only real question is "when and where is the marriage between Fragony and Tribesman taking place ?".

[Don Corleone]

[Hooahguy]

@Bopa-
so you are legitimizing suicide bombers, the kind of people who killed two cousins and a friend of mine? people who murdered my friend/cousins for no reason other than because they were jewish?
i have no words for you to express my utter disgust.

[Ice]

This isn't a zero sum game. I support both parties... pretty much along the lines of what Horetore has said about the one state solution or something similar.

[LittleGrizzly]

Im sorry but what is the difference between legitimising suicide bombers and legitimising the isreali attacks... both are equally legitimate or illegitimate as far as im concerned...

I wouldn't legitimise the actions of either side... but i can certainly understand why a suicide bomber does what he does... and i can also understand why an israeli feels right to strike at palestinians....

[Furunculus]

odd, the results are coming out the opposite of what i would have predicted, for those who profess an opinion, must be the result of my victim complex.

[Strike For The South]

There was nothing of substance in this.

[LittleGrizzly]

I didn't now Gah! was so well supported either...

I think i now what you mean... i put myself down as a palestinian supporter so to speak, rather because i was defining myself but what others would think rather than my opinion of my views.... whereas i would have gone for the Gah! option as i see both sides as bad as each other... which is what i think a lot of the 'pro-palestinian' people actually think...

The reason i come off as pro palestinian is because i think the israelis are the only ones who could solve the problem but choose not to....

[Incongruous]

@Bopa-
so you are legitimizing suicide bombers, the kind of people who killed two cousins and a friend of mine? people who murdered my friend/cousins for no reason other than because they were jewish?
i have no words for you to express my utter disgust.

They were not killed because they were Jewish, that Palestinian was not looking to go and kill a Jew, he was looking to kill an Israeli.
No reason? Well I think that you are being foolish if you think that the Palestinian killed himself and others for no reason. The Palestinians have plenty of reasons to kill Israelis.

Disgust...
and the icon, yeah very powerful coming from someone who supports a war machine which tortures children...
Try again please.

[Don Corleone]

They were not killed because they were Jewish, that Palestinian was not looking to go and kill a Jew, he was looking to kill an Israeli.
No reason? Well I think that you are being foolish if you think that the Palestinian killed himself and others for no reason. The Palestinians have plenty of reasons to kill Israelis.

Disgust...
and the icon, yeah very powerful coming from someone who supports a war machine which tortures children...
Try again please.

Okay, I've learned 2 things:

1) The vast majority of you are too to pony up one way or the other. You'd rather vote "Gah" and go on griping about both sides, without doing any hard work of taking a stance.


2) Bopa has no compassion for somebody who's lost family members. He'd rather tell somebody who lost a cousin that they got what they had coming to them. Damn....

If a moderator would be so kind as to close this thread, I think I've learned everything I need to about the Backroom in general, and Bopa in particular. I knew there were hateful people hanging around, but I didn't know it got down to this level....

[Incongruous]

Okay, I've learned 2 things:

1) The vast majority of you are too to pony up one way or the other. You'd rather vote "Gah" and go on griping about both sides, without doing any hard work of taking a stance.


2) Bopa has no compassion for somebody who's lost family members. He'd rather tell somebody who lost a cousin that they got what they had coming to them. Damn....

If a moderator would be so kind as to close this thread, I think I've learned everything I need to about the Backroom in general, and Bopa in particular. I knew there were hateful people hanging around, but I didn't know it got down to this level....

Yes, so much compassion for the thousands of slain Palestinian children has been show here.
I am not celebrating the death of anyone, I just thought that hooah had drawn the wrong conclusion from the experience.
I was annoyed at his disgust and icon because of his views on the IDF which is known to have tortured children.

Now, I understand why hooah's friend and cousins were killed, but I feel that he does not and this is a big problem. He used the term Jewish and believed that the bomber had no good reason. This is a clearly dangerous mindset because it shows he has no understanding of the Palestinians. The bomber clearly had a reason and to him a good one.

Hmm, so it would seem that you either have an inherent dislike for me becasue I am pro-Palestinian or you did not read my post properly.

Also, I called him out on the icon because I felt it was a cheap shot, nowhere did I say that it was "AWSOME TEH COOLZ" that Israeli civilians were being killed.
I dislike his attempt to shame me out of the discussion, something which you have also tried to do Don

[Don Corleone]

The man said he lost two friends and a cousin, and you all as much as said "GOOD!". Justify it any way you want to, claim victim status if it makes you feel better, but you gloated that somebody died. Yes, hundreds of Palestinian children died, and that's horrible. That doesn't excuse you gloating over Hooahs friends and relatives dying. At least be a man and own your words, or are you capable of that?

[Incongruous]

The man said he lost two friends and a cousin, and you all as much as said "GOOD!". Justify it any way you want to, claim victim status if it makes you feel better, but you gloated that somebody died. Yes, hundreds of Palestinian children died, and that's horrible. That doesn't excuse you gloating over Hooahs friends and relatives dying. At least be a man and own your words, or are you capable of that?

Hmmm, so Don where did I say "GOOD"?
Oh sorry its that you read from my post that I had almost, kinda said good but actually had not, but that doesn't matter because that is what you took from it?
Oh, ok then Don, I am very sorry for having allowed you to misread my post and get angry

[Don Corleone]

Like I said, I know everything I need to about you, flyspeck.

[Incongruous]

Like I said, I know everything I need to about you, flyspeck.

Are you sure Don?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Original poster having requested the closure of the thread, and contentiousness rising, it is now so closed.