Which ally to betray, the tough choice?

**Polemists** · 02-10-2009, 12:38

So in my current game it is moving towards the end, I am playing Denmark, I have beat back a variety of powers, HRE, France, Poland, Hungary, Egypt, and various rebels. For some odd reason in my game the pope has gained HUGE amounts of land. Scotland is owned by the pope, northern spain is owned by the pope, and antioch and aleppo are owned by the pope, along with rome.

I've been on every crusade and so my king is a crusader with all kinds of relics, his son(The prince) also a crusader.

At end of last crusade, we had a sicliy pope and I was mopping up Hungary and Poland. So I married into a english alliance...all well and good. England had been my all for a long...long time. Milan offered a alliance. France a cease fire. Life was good.

Then hungary got a pope in, and it's gone to pot. I've tried money, it dosn't seem to do much of anything, and now comes the moment.

The pope has declared a crusade against the city of Milan, my ally. Problem is milan has about 5000 troops there just waiting. If I don't join the crusade I get excommunicated and a inquisition. Also I probably lose england as a ally.

If I do go there, i'm now stuck in a sicliy, milan, venice war, that has been going on for better part of 30 years and my army is wiped out because they have 5000 guys

I need 15 more provinces to win, I guess I could say screw it all and invade all my borders with france, spain, and take another egypt town, and then i'd be around 7 from a win.

I could take no the pope but it's doubtful I could get a army up to scotland in 6 turns that are left. So most likely the excommunication would be permanent like.

So do I declare crusade and betray Milan and act as puppet for hungarian pope?

Or betray my 3 generation ally of England, and start a war with the papacy?

Decisions decisions

**gollum** · 02-10-2009, 13:03

The best place to decide important matters is always the lou.

!it burnsus!

**cathartic** · 02-10-2009, 14:11

Are you in a position where you can kill the pope in just a few turns?

If so, then that's probably the easiest option. Excommunication only lasts as long as the pope lives.

**Monsieur Alphonse** · 02-10-2009, 15:49

Don't kill the pope by attacking him. You will get excommunicated as well. Since you will be at war with the pope reconciliation will be very difficult. Either assassinate the pope or bribe him and make your standing with the pope better. Or attack the green goblins.

**PBI** · 02-10-2009, 17:12

Milan must die. Accept the inevitable.

Sooner or later they will use those 5000 troops against you, along with the thousands more they will magically raise from nowhere and spam at you. Better to get the tedium over now. Troops can be replaced, but every hour of ignominy while those vile and treacherous Milanese curs yet live cannot be.

I'd say, give it a few turns, to build up your forces and hopefully let the Pope and the other Crusaders thin the herd a little for you, then join the Crusade later on. An alliance with Milan is not worth the paper it's written on, they WILL betray you sooner or later; attacking the Pope would just be a waste of forces which could be put to better use killing the Milanese.

**Quintus.JC** · 02-10-2009, 17:33

Milan's got a notorious reputation for its betrayls, taking the city shouldn't be much of a problem.

You may want to abandon the city if you feel it would be eventually disadvantageous to hold, Northern Italy being fought over by many factions and all that.

**lenin96** · 02-11-2009, 02:21

I would go on the crusade and take Milan before anyone else does, and if there are any places in britain that aren't owned by the Pope then take them as well.

**Old Geezer** · 02-11-2009, 04:11

What a deal! The Pope calls a crusade on Milan! Break out the bubbley and celebrate! What more can a MTW2 player hope for? Especially good for the Danes who will gain access to northern Italy - one very strategic area. I almost never pass up a free shot (no loss in rep) to attack any faction, but Milan is too good to be true. I usually have to spend many turns to goad them into attacking me enough to get excommunicated. Take as many Milanese cities on the way as you can, if possible with your crusading armies.

**FactionHeir** · 02-12-2009, 17:13

Depends on your public order. If its high, I'd disobey the pope and keep your allies. Also, while excommunicated, you can freely attack the papacy without much worry, so might as well do a landgrab.

**ollicompolli** · 02-13-2009, 13:00

Just do what the others have said- kill the green tide before it spills out.

Otherwise you will have a hard time with huscarls vs. milanese crossbowmen...

**Ratwar** · 02-13-2009, 18:53

Well, I'd go after Milan. Kill the green, feel the clean...

I've always seen Milan as a backstabbing nation, and as other have said, they'll eventually use those troops against you, ally or not. Of course, you might want to wait on the off chance that the city gets taken or the Pope dies before the time limit runs out...