Geert Wilders denied entry to the UK

[Fragony]

Edit, spinoff from BG's glory to science and democracy thread, which he posted from England out of all places.

Same day the English government refuses a dutch member of the parlement and EU citizen entry

[Pannonian]

Same day the English government refuses a dutch member of the parlement and EU citizen entry

Absolutely disgraceful, consideriing that England and Holland were supposed to be allied against the common threat of Napoleon. Did the Dutch consider breaking away from the English over this diplomatic faux pas and turning instead to Bonaparte?

[CountArach]

Absolutely disgraceful, consideriing that England and Holland were supposed to be allied against the common threat of Napoleon. Did the Dutch consider breaking away from the English over this diplomatic faux pas and turning instead to Bonaparte?

I do believe that Bonaparte had already conquered Holland well in advance of this time and as such the British refusal to let in the Dutch citizen was excusable. After all, that Dutch citizen could well have been a spy for the EU - which we all know was a tool of Bonapartist foreign policy - both of them believed in a continental-wide free-trade system. OPEN YOUR EYES SHEEPLE.

[Banquo's Ghost]

I think this subject deserves its own thread rather than derailing mine.

For those who don't know what Fragony is referring to, this article may help.

Geert Wilders was invited to Westminster to show his 17-minute film Fitna, which criticises the Koran as a "fascist book", by a member of the House of Lords.

But on Tuesday he received a letter from the Home Office refusing him entry because his opinions "would threaten community security and therefore public security" in the UK.

Mr Wilders, a member of Holland's Freedom Party, condemned the British Government as "weak and cowardly" and vowed he would make the trip anyway.

Personally, I think it is beyond stupid and also illegal. If the Lords wish to invite a MEP, who has never been convicted of a crime, to speak on his odd views, that is their - and his - right. Barmy politicians should be allowed to talk through their views and be challenged on them.

[Devastatin Dave]

Funny how the Brits have an entire population of "youths" chanting and plotting their destruction but won't let a man warming up the emergency siren for all of Europe about their Islamic isssue, on their shore. This world is upside down. Next thing you know the US will elect a Marxist Muslim insurgent... oh wait....

[Fragony]

Absolutely disgraceful, consideriing that England and Holland were supposed to be allied against the common threat of Napoleon. Did the Dutch consider breaking away from the English over this diplomatic faux pas and turning instead to Bonaparte?

Mock it all you want, won't change anything in great brittain, nor will it change anything here the UK has made it's choice. Going to be a cold winter for the left, and I am going to feast on the couscous of my maroccan neighbours and maybe even marry their daughter as they suggested just for kicks and giggles.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Funny how the Brits have an entire population of "youths" chanting and plotting their destruction but won't let a man warming up the emergency siren for all of Europe about their Islamic isssue, on their shore. This world is upside down. Next thing you know the US will elect a Marxist Muslim insurgent... oh wait....

Actually, in there is a very good point (no Dave, not about the president - you know very well that I would start melting if I doubted the Appointed One ).

The UK is, apparently, the number one intelligence target for the CIA at this time because of the substantial network of jihadist wannabes. Far more agents (there was a guestimate of around 4,000) have been deployed in the UK than Pakistan or Afghanistan.

Apart from the question as to why the US doesn't bomb Bradford flat (as seems to be the policy for other uncooperative countries) it gets to the heart of what Fragony sometimes gets right - which is how a feeble-minded dhimmitude can allow fanatics to flourish.

[Fragony]

Apart from the question as to why the US doesn't bomb Bradford flat (as seems to be the policy for other uncooperative countries) it gets to the heart of what Fragony sometimes gets right - which is how a feeble-minded dhimmitude can allow fanatics to flourish.

Hey, thanks for that even if mildly insulting. 99% of the muslims are great people. But the lefties only listen to that 1% that aren't great because of their multicultural religion; the most intolerant and absolutist religion the western world has ever seen. Christians and muslims accept other religions, multiculturalists will never accept even a shred of doubt.

[Vladimir]

The UK is, apparently, the number one intelligence target for the CIA at this time because of the substantial network of jihadist wannabes. Far more agents (there was a guestimate of around 4,000) have been deployed in the UK than Pakistan or Afghanistan.

Ease up on the CIA. I don't want you donning a metallic hat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...d-Germany.html

[Furunculus]

Geert Wilders should never have been refused entry.

[Furunculus]

Ease up on the CIA. I don't want you donning a metallic hat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...d-Germany.html

it was long suspected that the french version of GCHQ was more involved in economic espionage than security related comm-int.

[InsaneApache]

Apart from the question as to why the US doesn't bomb Bradford flat (as seems to be the policy for other uncooperative countries) it gets to the heart of what Fragony sometimes gets right - which is how a feeble-minded dhimmitude can allow fanatics to flourish.

I thought they already had down Manningham way.

[Vladimir]

it was long suspected that the french version of GCHS was more involved in economic espionage than security related comm-int.

...are always involved. I have to admit though that I'm proud of the French. They actually admitted they do this with that typical French "in your face with style" attitude.

[Fragony]

Geert Wilders should never have been refused entry.

Well this is good actually. They are trying to trial him for spreading hate here, also good. Portraying him in black&white to stir reflexes is good. Calling him the evil that should be stopped is good. They can do as they please it won't help them, as I have always said, the left needs a miracle the right needs patience, I am perfectly fine with living with the muslims but the left needs to go.

edit; hehe he actually got arrested, a dutch member of the parlement, thanks UK! That saves us a lot of money!

[Furunculus]

another opinion from Danial Hannan:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_...eapens_britain

[Fragony]

another opinion from Danial Hannan:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_...eapens_britain

Little bit of information, the call for the banning of the Quran is just to show the hypocracy in dutch law, if Mein Kampf is banned, why not the Quran. I wouldn't take this aproach, but it's valid imho, nobody in the PVV would actually ban the Quran for real, it's just meant for forcing the lefties to take an honest look at theirselves and deal with the rather inconvenient truth; islamic extremism, and european dhimmitude because of multicultural desire.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Funny how the Brits have an entire population of "youths" chanting and plotting their destruction but won't let a man warming up the emergency siren for all of Europe about their Islamic isssue, on their shore. This world is upside down. Next thing you know the US will elect a Marxist Muslim insurgent... oh wait....

Elect to what office?

If you're referring to our POTUS, there is no evidence that he is a Muslim. Moreover, Marxism and strict Islamicism would be mutually exclusive. He certainly ran an "underdog" campaign, but I wouldn't have labeled it an insurgency.

[FactionHeir]

The Home Office said: "The Government opposes extremism in all its forms.

"It will stop those who want to spread extremism, hatred and violent messages in our communities from coming to our country, and that was the driving force behind tighter rules on exclusions for unacceptable behaviour that the Home Secretary announced in October last year."

Couldn't agree more. If you don't allow imams to preach jihad in the UK, then you equally cannot allow a white guy to preach hatred towards Islam.

[rasoforos]

Little bit of information, the call for the banning of the Quran is just to show the hypocricy in dutch law, if Mein Kampf is banned, why not the Quran.

You really do not see the difference do you?



Factionheir <---- Finally the voice of reason.

Freedom of speech is fine and good but it comes with a price. The price is that people often believe what you say. So you should not be allowed to go out there and talk EVEN if you are an Imam or a Dutch MP.

[Furunculus]

Couldn't agree more. If you don't allow imams to preach jihad in the UK, then you equally cannot allow a white guy to preach hatred towards Islam.

does he incite other people to violence?

our laws are not supposed to be interpretted in a wishy washy way governed by whether we think he's a bit of a tool or not, they are about banning people who incite violence against others.

[Hooahguy]

You really do not see the difference do you?



Factionheir <---- Finally the voice of reason.

Freedom of speech is fine and good but it comes with a price. The price is that people often believe what you say. So you should not be allowed to go out there and talk EVEN if you are an Imam or a Dutch MP.

are you in support of the fairness doctrine?

[Furunculus]

You really do not see the difference do you?



Factionheir <---- Finally the voice of reason.

Freedom of speech is fine and good but it comes with a price. The price is that people often believe what you say. So you should not be allowed to go out there and talk EVEN if you are an Imam or a Dutch MP.

i'm glad your greek and not british, too many of your sort and we wouldn't have freedom of speech as we know it in the UK today.

[Fragony]

You really do not see the difference do you?

Of course I do, so does Wilders, I can know I dated his secretary. It's a 'mirror' for dutch law, both books contain what could be seen as 'hate', what we have here, is political trolling, or better sophism. Compared to BNP and the french national party Wilders is a lovepuppy. Basicly he is doing the same as the left, hijacking WW2 for political purpose. Leave us alone we are doing fine. We end up blaming the muslims for what isn't their doing.

[rasoforos]

i'm glad your greek and not british, too many of your sort and we wouldn't have freedom of speech as we know it in the UK today.

Go hide under your bridge little troll. The three billy goats are coming...

Putting my ethnicity in this conversation was totally uncalled for. I am sorry but I will tell 'my sort' to leave 'your country' so we do not influence you badly...sorry for the inconvenience...

FYI: I spent most of my adult life in the UK...

[rasoforos]

Of course I do, so does Wilders, I can know I dated his secretary. It's a 'mirror' for dutch law, both books contain what could be seen as 'hate', what we have here, is political trolling, or better sophism. Compared to BNP and the french national party Wilders is a lovepuppy. Basicly he is doing the same as the left, hijacking WW2 for political purpose. Of our muslim population 99% are great people, but the left only caters that 1% of the muslims that are not because of their multiculturalist religion, and it's doing a lot of damage, we don't want it, nor do the muslims, only the left does. Leave us alone we are doing fine. We end up blaming the muslims for what isn't their doing.

Fair enough, I see what you mean, but you can give a children's book to a lawyer and I will bet you good money he can claim that it incites hate (if you pay him good money)...

...It is a vicious circle. Sometimes it is better to keep a compromising balance than to open the door to extremism just because some precedent (a book, a religion, an idea) has been established.

[Fragony]

Fair enough, I see what you mean, but you can give a children's book to a lawyer and I will bet you good money he can claim that it incites hate (if you pay him good money)...

...It is a vicious circle. Sometimes it is better to keep a compromising balance than to open the door to extremism just because some precedent (a book, a religion, an idea) has been established.

I consider myself to be extremely moderate, the funny thing about the rightwing extremists is that they actually believe there is some hidden power in the Quran that turns people mad. But the extreme right has no power, but the extreme left who see the muslims as the new proletariat does. Our muslims aren't nearly as aggressive or demanding as they are in other Europeam countries. We are doing fine, there is nothing to fix. I wish the politicians would just let us be, but they got addicted to change. Scrap politicians.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Freedom of speech is fine and good but it comes with a price. The price is that people often believe what you say. So you should not be allowed to go out there and talk EVEN if you are an Imam or a Dutch MP.

The stupidity of people is no reason to ban speech. Indeed, you are saying the persuasiveness of a person means they shouldn't be allowed to speak in support of things you disagree with.

You obviously do not believe "Freedom of speech is fine and good". You do not believe in freedom of speech at all, so do not offer such platitudes while tearing down the basic right.

Couldn't agree more. If you don't allow imams to preach jihad in the UK,

In the past the UK certainly has, and it seems they still are.

This is a monumentally pathetic and cowardly move on the part of the UK. If the leaders do not grow a spine forthright, they will find themselves puppets in their own country.

CR

[Lemur]

The UK is, apparently, the number one intelligence target for the CIA at this time because of the substantial network of jihadist wannabes.

Side note: I would imagine the U.K. is a popular destination for our spies for lots of reasons. For instance, if you spend two years in the tribal regions of Pakistan, you're likely to spend some time with chronic diarrhea in a mud hut covered with biting flies. A two-year stint in London, on the other hand, means you could wind up developing a taste for crumpets.

I've always suspected that half the reason we have so little HumInt in Afghanistan and Pakistan is that nobody in their right mind wants to hang out in those countries for years at a time.

[Furunculus]

Go hide under your bridge little troll. The three billy goats are coming...

Putting my ethnicity in this conversation was totally uncalled for. I am sorry but I will tell 'my sort' to leave 'your country' so we do not influence you badly...sorry for the inconvenience...

FYI: I spent most of my adult life in the UK...

I apologise if the point i was trying to make came across badly. :)

The point being, that in the UK freedom of speech means being able to be a tool, as long as one does not explicitly incite violence.

Geert Wilders (sp?) appears to be an offensive little creep with whom i would have nothing to do with, but while he lays into the less advanced elements of islam quite ferociously he does not to my knowledge call for violence against muslims in particular, or brown people with big bushy beards in general.

Thus to the British, banning him is a gross infringement of our freedom of speech, and while i appreciate that other people in other countries interpret freedom of speech differently, i will always violently disagree with anyone who suggests it as an appropriate reaction in Britain.

So i violently disagreed with you, but i did so in a way that was overly personal for which i apologise. But banning Geert Wilders for that is not British.

[LittleGrizzly]

if Mein Kampf is banned, why not the Quran.

My cousin owns a copy, an intresting insight into the mind of a maniac... texts like the old testament have some genocidal egomaniac running the show, so from what i now of the Quran we should ban the old testament first...

Being an evil lefty i think the evil religions (like islam, christianity and judaism) should be free to worship and read thier books...

I think FH has hit the nail on the head... we don't allow wacko muslims spreading hate in our country so we don't allow wacko wilder in our country to spread hate... now its difficult for me to decide how much hatred should be allowed... but if were going to have a policy to kick out wackos, then we can't only kick out the muslim wackos, we have to kick wackos out no matter thier creed or colour...