Results 1 to 30 of 47

Thread: Why do we bother?

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,636

    Default Why do we bother?

    I'd like to say that I'm suprised but I'm not.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    A pregnant woman, her husband and their three-year-old son were killed in a house fire early yesterday as police who arrived before the fire brigade prevented neighbours from trying to save them. The woman screamed: “Please save my kids” from a bedroom window and neighbours tried to help but were beaten back by flames and were told by police not to attempt a rescue.

    By the time firefighters got into the house in Doncaster, Michelle Colly, 25, her husband, Mark, 29, and son, Louis, 3, were dead. Their daughter, Sophie, 5, was taken to hospital and believed to be critically ill.

    Davey Davis, 38, a friend of the family, said: “It was the most harrowing thing I have ever witnessed. Michelle was at the bedroom window yelling, ‘Please save my kids’ and we wanted to help but the police were pushing us back and not allowing us near. We were willing to risk our lives to save those kiddies but the police wouldn’t let us.

    “Tempers were running very high, particularly with the women who were there, but the police were just saying we have to wait for the fire brigade because of health and safety.

    “There were four or five police officers. They were here before the fire brigade. We heard the sirens and we came across to help but they wouldn’t let us.

    “I thought the police were there to protect lives. At one time they would have have gone inside themselves to try and rescue them.

    “When a family is burning to death in front of your eyes, rules should go out of the window – especially with kids. Everybody wanted to try and help.”

    Mr Davis added: “They were a great couple, a real family. They loved their kids and the kids were smashing. It’s hard to take in.” Another resident, who asked not to be named, added: “There were lads with aluminium ladders who wanted to get to them but the police were shouting, ‘Stay away, get out of the yard.’ They were saying, ‘You have got to wait until the fire brigade gets here.’ Michelle was standing at the window banging on it – we all saw it – and shouting to save her kids but the police were just below her pushing us out and telling everybody to stay away.”

    Jordan Fisher, 17, said: “The woman was screaming, ‘My kids are in here, my kids are in here’. Everyone was trying to get her to throw the kids out but then she disappeared. We tried to get a ladder up to the window but the flames were coming out of the ground floor, so we couldn’t do it.”

    Mrs Colly, who ran a toddlers’ group, and her husband, a DIY store supervisor, were expecting their third child in two weeks.

    A South Yorkshire Police spokeswoman said: “The senior officer in charge is confident we handled this incident as professionally as possible. In a situation like that you could end up with more deceased bodies than you had in the first place.”

    The house and some neighbouring properties were cordoned off as police and fire investigators tried to establish the cause of the blaze. It is not thought to be suspicious.


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5998930.ece

    When I was a nipper my dad was a copper and I'm sure would never behave like these policemen did. The police are a joke these days. As for those PCSOs I wouldn't pay them in washers, absolute waste of space.

    I'll recount a tale of an incident that happened last summer. I was walking the dogs in the park with my wife. We passed some youths, one of which said something to my wife. She is no shrinking violet and began to remonstrate with them. As we started to walk away a brick came hurtling over our heads and landed just in front of us, followed by several others. I got my moblie phone out and rang the police. The youths saw this and ran off. About ten minutes later two bobbies turn up. I told them what had happened and was shocked at what they said.

    "Did any of the bricks hit you?" I said that they hadn't. "In that case no crime has been committed." No crime? Chucking half charlies at people heads is legal? It gets better. I said that I was going to photograph them so that the police could catch them. I was told that if I had taken a photograph that they would arrest me on charges of being a peadophile. I was dumbstruck.

    That's what twelve years of the Blair/Brown has gotten us. Policemen who don't police anymore. I'm almost tempted to say I'd rather have those US policemen who beat you up first and ask questions later. Almost.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    There is something to say for the behaviour of these officers, this is really sad.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    The police in the UK are indeed a joke. The mistake is in thinking that they're there for your protection. They're not, they are mere tools that are there to oppress you.

    I'm quite sure that if you'd decided to stage a demonstration about it the following week with a good few supporters in tow, that the police would certainly not only turn up but, in force. That's where their priorities lie.

    Unfortunately it wasn't any better under the Tory party. Labour have simply continued along the same route, which is why much of the critique of Labour policies by the Tories has been purely political, with the latter never offering any real ideas as to how they would do it differently. I agree though, it's about time that the Blair/Brown dynasty was booted out, but who replaces them?
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  4. #4
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Opression is a bit much but having police playing outside is more trouble then it's worth they should be privatised you can't leave things like that to the government.

  5. #5
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    9,029

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Opression is a bit much but having police playing outside is more trouble then it's worth they should be privatised you can't leave things like that to the government.
    Then you are one step away from private armies...

    Oh wait, we have those too... and they are working out remarkably well aren't they?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  6. #6
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Then you are one step away from private armies...

    Oh wait, we have those too... and they are working out remarkably well aren't they?
    Industrial and commercial area's are already patrolled by private security-organisations, works fine, I don't see why that wouldn't work for neighbourhoods. If a security-company doesn't deliver you can hire a better one, police is useless there is no reason for having it. That or the inevitable vigilanties

    edit, I like the Spanish guarda civil, they leave you alone if you don't cause any problems, won't fine you over silly stuff, and are nobody's fool.
    Last edited by Fragony; 03-30-2009 at 11:26.

  7. #7
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,369

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Then you are one step away from private armies...

    Oh wait, we have those too... and they are working out remarkably well aren't they?
    I will point out blackwater probably would've let them run into the burning building.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    2,663

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    What is the actual point in PCSO's? They don't actually have the power to arrest anyone so seem like a total waste of time to me. Why not just train people to become police officers instead of PCSO's which serve no real purpose.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  9. #9
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,636

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by tibilicus View Post
    What is the actual point in PCSO's? They don't actually have the power to arrest anyone so seem like a total waste of time to me. Why not just train people to become police officers instead of PCSO's which serve no real purpose.
    Quotas mate, quotas.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  10. #10
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I'd like to say that I'm suprised but I'm not.



    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5998930.ece

    When I was a nipper my dad was a copper and I'm sure would never behave like these policemen did. The police are a joke these days. As for those PCSOs I wouldn't pay them in washers, absolute waste of space.

    I'll recount a tale of an incident that happened last summer. I was walking the dogs in the park with my wife. We passed some youths, one of which said something to my wife. She is no shrinking violet and began to remonstrate with them. As we started to walk away a brick came hurtling over our heads and landed just in front of us, followed by several others. I got my moblie phone out and rang the police. The youths saw this and ran off. About ten minutes later two bobbies turn up. I told them what had happened and was shocked at what they said.

    "Did any of the bricks hit you?" I said that they hadn't. "In that case no crime has been committed." No crime? Chucking half charlies at people heads is legal? It gets better. I said that I was going to photograph them so that the police could catch them. I was told that if I had taken a photograph that they would arrest me on charges of being a peadophile. I was dumbstruck.

    That's what twelve years of the Blair/Brown has gotten us. Policemen who don't police anymore. I'm almost tempted to say I'd rather have those US policemen who beat you up first and ask questions later. Almost.
    lol, the police in Britain are a result of anti-police sentiment that has made them scared to be real police anymore.
    Also, you do not know what you are talking about with American police. They are the farthest thing from "beat you up first and ask questions later". They do their job and make sure people obey the law. Sure you have some isolated cases of corruption or misuse of power, it happens anywhere where people have power, but the good ones do their best to keep it undercontrol and punish the bad ones for it. No matter what you want to say about American policemen, if the Fire Department could not get there in time, they would give their lives if necassary to rescue a burning human. 99% of them are really true protectors of the people, and deserve more respect than they get for it. Considering the number of policemen in America (and the limited funding they get), there is VERY little corruption or abuse of power. Sorry to rant on you Apache, but before you go believing what the media tells you about American police, perhaps you should come live here and see for yourself.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  11. #11
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,636

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    My step mums an American citizen.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  12. #12
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    My step mums an American citizen.
    lol, so? :P
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  13. #13
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,636

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    I might not be as ignorant of the USA as you assume.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  14. #14
    Relentless Bughunter Senior Member FactionHeir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    8,115

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    I think you should have taken your story to a newspaper. Very sad.
    Want gunpowder, mongols, and timurids to appear when YOU do?
    Playing on a different timescale and never get to see the new world or just wanting to change your timescale?
    Click here to read the solution
    Annoyed at laggy battles? Check this thread out for your performance needs
    Got low fps during siege battles in particular? This tutorial is for you
    Want to play M2TW as a Vanilla experience minus many annoying bugs? Get VanillaMod Visit the forum Readme
    Need improved and faster 2H animations? Download this! (included in VanillaMod 0.93)

  15. #15
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I might not be as ignorant of the USA as you assume.
    I'm sorry Apache, but you are very wrong about US police. It is a stereotype put forth by police haters in the US, and trumpetted abroad esp in places that are not friendly to the US. (and I know enough Englishmen to know that you guy's opinion of us is very low :P) In Hungary for example, I was talking to one of my friends about the police here and how they were directing the procession at Mohacs, and I commented that they were very friendly when I accidently wandered off into a restricted area. She tells me, "Yeah, they are not like police in the Americas, they will not shoot at you for something like that." WHAT?! I almost died of laughter when she said that. :P Shoot you for walking in a closed off place?! How do foriegners learn such ridiculous things about us? All I can think of is the media (and Hollywood shares blame equally for it I think).
    I not saying that you are as ignorant as that dear lady was, but I think that you suffer from a misconception much akin to that. :P In all fairness, American police are friendly, responsible people, who do their best to uphold justice, and from what I have seen in Europe, seem to be pretty top-notch. Looking for police who abuse their power? Look at Russia, not the US. :P The police in Russia are like what most people think of the police in the US. :P
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  16. #16
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    1,290

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    99% of them are really true protectors of the people, and deserve more respect than they get for it.
    Now its my turn to laugh. No offense, but that statistic you pulled out of your rear end is ridiculous. Id say the cops that are truly commited to "Protect and serve" are few and far between.

    When you mentioned the russian police, it reminded me of something. This funny video where a big drug deal was going down with the red mafia. The russian cops pop out of the bushes, and the gangsters go straight to the ground voluntarily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i love the idea that angsty-teens can get so spazzed out by computer games that they try to rage-rape themselves with a remote.

  17. #17
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mooks View Post
    Now its my turn to laugh. No offense, but that statistic you pulled out of your rear end is ridiculous. Id say the cops that are truly commited to "Protect and serve" are few and far between.

    When you mentioned the russian police, it reminded me of something. This funny video where a big drug deal was going down with the red mafia. The russian cops pop out of the bushes, and the gangsters go straight to the ground voluntarily.
    I was not using the figure as a statistic, but as a hyperbole. I thought that would have been obvious, but I guess I was wrong. I have had experience with police men and women from many different states since I was a small child (my dad did work related to the police, and I often accompanied him on his work, and became involved in the justice system in some small ways myself since a young age), so I have had a pretty good chance to see first hand. Many of my families best friends are or have been in the police force. I have had police barricade themselves inside my house in the middle of the day when they were trying to stop my crazy neighbor from murdering his family. I have had lots of personal experience with the justice system myself in many ways. I say this to point out that I probably have known more policemen and women in one year of my life than you have in your entire life, and my experience has been a lot richer. Sure, I have gotten bum deals from a policeman (a Statey (all the jerks become Stateys :P) gave me a citation for going off the road in ridiculous Wisconsin winter weather, then the courts me over when I tried to contest it), there are bad people everywhere, and the justice system is no different. From my experience though, the people who serve in the justice system are USUALLY quite a cut above the common person. They are people who really would give their lives for others, people who care about justice, and people who care about the common citizen. Of the all the policemen I have known, I have only known two who I would classify as bad apples. The thing is that you never hear about when the tens of thousands of policemen across the nation daily put their lives on the line to protect and serve. A policeman doing his job and making his community and country a better place does not make headlines, a policeman who abuses his power does. Naturally most things you read on the police are going to be negative, as that is what people are interested in. No one wants to hear the millions of possible stories on tens of thousands of policemen and women serving their country, they want to hear about the exceptions, they want to hear about the bad cops.
    Your statement about good cops being few and far between makes me wonder, what do you base that on? Do you base that statement on what you read about the police and the accounts you have heard of others who think that they were wronged by them, or do you base it on your own experience? How extensive is your experience with police men and women, and what about makes you say that?
    Last edited by Vuk; 03-30-2009 at 13:21.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  18. #18
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    OKRAHOMER
    Posts
    7,424

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    The cops at the fire weren't firefighters and should not have been allowed to decide whether or not a total quarantine of the fire was required, thats for firefighters to decide.

    And Vuk, I love you man, but you're idea that they are scared to be cops because of police-hating is high on rhetoric and low on thought. There's a reason people hate police, and its not because of the media, it's because of personal experiences and the actions of the police. While I agree that a lot of US cops are good folk, the fact that they "put their life on the line" does not give them free riegn to do when and what they, which is exactly what they do and more often than many think because a lot of it still goes unrecorded. And when it is recorded the person who did the recording is suddenly criminalized or has an agenda. I think a lot of this abuse stems subtley and indirectly from the blank check that has been provided to cops for the drug war so we could grow our prison culture that politicians profit so richly from, but thats another thread entirely.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0568157&q=ktla
    Last edited by Major Robert Dump; 03-30-2009 at 13:44.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  19. #19
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,992

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    The cops at the fire weren't firefighters and should not have been allowed to decide whether or not a total quarantine of the fire was required, thats for firefighters to decide.

    And Vuk, I love you man, but you're idea that they are scared to be cops because of police-hating is high on rhetoric and low on thought. There's a reason people hate police, and its not because of the media, it's because of personal experiences and the actions of the police. While I agree that a lot of US cops are good folk, the fact that they "put their life on the line" does not give them free riegn to do when and what they, which is exactly what they do and more often than many think because a lot of it still goes unrecorded. And when it is recorded the person who did the recording is suddenly criminalized or has an agenda. I think a lot of this abuse stems subtley and indirectly from the blank check that has been provided to cops for the drug war so we could grow our prison culture that politicians profit so richly from, but thats another thread entirely.
    Sorry Major, but 99% (oh no! There goes another hyperbole! Replace that with most :P) of the people I know who have a gripe with the police have it because:
    A) The had committed a serious crime such as drug possesion and the police did what they are paid to do by the people of the country and took their drugs away from them.
    B) They have gotten speeding tickets that they think they do not deserve, so they decide to hate the police for it. :P
    C) They saw this thing on TV, or they read this thing in the paper, etc.

    Most times (there, no hyperbole) that people, in my experience, have a gripe against the police because of some experience that THEY personally had with the police, they were breaking the law and the police did not act inappropriately at all. Those people then latch onto whatever stories they can find in the media to justify their hate of the police. My ex-gf used to hate the police because she had her liscense suspended because she kept speeding. Ever since then she would use any story that came onto the news to justify her hatred for the police. It had nothing to do with the police abusing power though, it to do with her not liking that she had to answer for endangering other people's lives and speeding. The subject is actually what eventually led to us breaking up. :P She did not like the fact that I thought her behavior was putting other people's lives in danger and that she deserves to have her liscense suspended for continuing it. :P Point is though that she, like so many others that I have known, have broken a law in a way that they thought was harmless, and have had to answer for it, so they do not like the police and cry police abuse of power whenever there is an incident of it in the papers. What you said about police thinking they have free reign and doing whatever they want is ridiculous. They are loaded down with so many restrictions and regulations that it would make your mind boggle, and most of them do their best to uphold them. They are not above the law themselves, and they know it. As far as tons of police abuse going on behind the scenes and people not reporting it...I do not know of anyone who would not protest if a policeman misused his power (and many even if he didn't :P).

    EDIT: Just saw the video you linked to. That is my point exactly Major. Things like that happen, and instead of labelling the person as a nut and punishing the person, they label police as "pigs". It was one mental case who did this. If it was an auto mechanic who shot someone, would it be fair to say that auto mechanics are pigs and they abuse their power? People take these isolated cases of nuts who get into the profession and abuse it, and use it to justify a hatred of the police.
    Last edited by Vuk; 03-30-2009 at 13:50.
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  20. #20
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Saint Antoine
    Posts
    9,935

    Default Re : Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    That's what twelve years of the Blair/Brown has gotten us. Policemen who don't police anymore. I'm almost tempted to say I'd rather have those US policemen who beat you up first and ask questions later. Almost.
    Look at it on the bright side, IA. Not that far from where you live there are countries where the police strangely manages to combine both incompetent non-interventionism AND a 'shoot first, shoot again if asked questions' mentality.


    More in general, I think the unarmed British bobby is still one of democracy's most powerful symbols. In the entire world, how many states make it a distinct policy to approach their population unarmed?
    Anything unrelated to elephants is irrelephant
    Texan by birth, woodpecker by the grace of God
    I would be the voice of your conscience if you had one - Brenus
    Bt why woulf we uy lsn'y Staraft - Fragony
    Not everything
    blue and underlined is a link


  21. #21
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I'd like to say that I'm suprised but I'm not.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5998930.ece

    When I was a nipper my dad was a copper and I'm sure would never behave like these policemen did. The police are a joke these days. As for those PCSOs I wouldn't pay them in washers, absolute waste of space.

    I'll recount a tale of an incident that happened last summer. I was walking the dogs in the park with my wife. We passed some youths, one of which said something to my wife. She is no shrinking violet and began to remonstrate with them. As we started to walk away a brick came hurtling over our heads and landed just in front of us, followed by several others. I got my moblie phone out and rang the police. The youths saw this and ran off. About ten minutes later two bobbies turn up. I told them what had happened and was shocked at what they said.

    "Did any of the bricks hit you?" I said that they hadn't. "In that case no crime has been committed." No crime? Chucking half charlies at people heads is legal? It gets better. I said that I was going to photograph them so that the police could catch them. I was told that if I had taken a photograph that they would arrest me on charges of being a peadophile. I was dumbstruck.
    That is astonishing. I'll point out that I've seen video of US police preventing a guy from rescuing his dog from an icy lake. When he tried to get past, they arrested him. But nothing like preventing rescue of people.

    Then you are one step away from private armies...

    Oh wait, we have those too... and they are working out remarkably well aren't they?
    Actually, there are some libertarian arguments for private police forces, because those would be easier to control by the citizens than the government enforcers we currently have.

    Sure you have some isolated cases of corruption or misuse of power, it happens anywhere where people have power, but the good ones do their best to keep it undercontrol and punish the bad ones for it. No matter what you want to say about American policemen, if the Fire Department could not get there in time, they would give their lives if necassary to rescue a burning human. 99% of them are really true protectors of the people, and deserve more respect than they get for it. Considering the number of policemen in America (and the limited funding they get), there is VERY little corruption or abuse of power.
    False. Abuse is systemic throughout all police in this country. I know a guy applying for a police job and he's told me departments will just fake physical training results if the officer isn't in shape. Because having an officer who's failed can be a liability.

    The good ones keep it under control? Again false. Here's the story of one police department that kept 50 pounds of explosives in their building, near apartments. A huge potential danger. The higher ups knew about it.

    So one 20 year veteran, named officer of the year in 2004, went to the feds, who ordered it moved immediately. He also fights other problems. So what does the department do? It fires him.

    The weapon is not there for the ordinary citizen, so he has no need to fear it.


    I'm sorry, but that is the response such a statement deserves. Should I link to the diabetic man who got tasered by police for not complying, because he was in diabetic shock?! Or maybe link to all the innocent people slaughtered by police on raids?

    Nothing to fear. I can't fully express my contempt for that statement.
    People like the one in the video posted above are murderous scum, and should be put to death for being murderous scum. Other police men and women should not be discriminated against for it though.
    But they will not be, because they are police. And the other police will protect and stand by them, and that is why they should be discriminated against.

    And the stereotype that bothered me was not what was said about the English police, but that American police are "beat you up first, ask questions later" police. It simply is not true, and is an unfair characterization of a broad group of people (in this way no better than racism or sexism).
    In my state, two police officers beat up a man at his home after he refused, legally, to let them in. They claimed he assaulted them by closing the door on one officers foot. That officer had to put his foot in the doorway because the 'rickety wooden steps" to the door made him lose his balance. Problem was that their were no wooden steps, just a concrete ramp that's been there for two decades. The police establishment stood 100% behind those abusive officers.

    But maybe a better phrase would be "ask questions and then beat you up".

    How bad was the fire when this occurred? Would the people - with no equipment - have possibly got inside to get the persons, only to have their shoes / clothes melt and burn, killing them and those they are trying to save?
    Maybe. Maybe it would have been as suicidal as going into a grain tower after someone.

    Or maybe not, and those children would not have burned to death. Either way, my life is my own. I am not a ward of the state, and as such I should be free and able to try and save people, even at danger to myself. At the end the question is if we are a free people or merely peasants under the state.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  22. #22
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    France
    Posts
    3,074

    Default Re : Re: Why do we bother?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post


    I'm sorry, but that is the response such a statement deserves.
    You can admit that you miss Tribesman

  23. #23
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Between the Mountain and the Sound
    Posts
    11,074
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Lol. I don't think good ole tribesy would be arguing my side in this, though. I do wonder where he's gone...

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

  24. #24
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,636

    Default Re: Why do we bother?

    Perhaps he joined the police!
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO