I am used to you going with your gut...nice analysis .
Yes, I am reasonably sure that BG's list was accurate. His tone/writing style with the reveal and subsequent posts were very much normal for him. The attacks on Sasaki and CA seemed to bear out their stories well in addition.
Unvote: Beskar
My post was supposed to get people to think. We had a short list of likely innocents (no absolutely confirmed innocents of course, but that's mafia), but all of the voting was on me as a suspected GF of the ninja...leaving the rest under-analyzed.
GH should get a chance to sword me down -- it'll let him focus better afterwards -- but I think the focus should be on those we have NO indication of innocence, but who's behavior does seem "off."
Vote: Factionheir
Still not ringing true for me.
My role is generic samurai, the role has already been posted, so posting mine would only evoke the "he could have faked it all" response, so I'll let GH sword me down or let the mafia whack me when they realize I won't get voted off the island.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Andres, our esteemed host seems to be (very loosely) following the plot of Kagemusha, the Kurosawa movie. Wiki summary in spoilers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The film opens with a shot of what appears to be three identical Shingens. One really is Shingen, the second is his brother, Nobukado. The third man is a thief who Nobukado accidentally came across and spared from crucifixion, believing the thief's uncanny resemblance to Shingen would prove useful. Shingen agrees that he would prove useful as a double and they decide to use the thief as a kagemusha.
Shingen's army has besieged a castle of Tokugawa Ieyasu. When Shingen visits the battlefield to hear a mysterious nightly flute player, he is shot by a sniper. Mortally wounded, he orders his generals to keep his death a secret for three years. Shingen later dies while being carried over a mountain pass, with only a small group of witnesses.
Nobukado presents the thief to the generals and contrives a plan to have this kagemusha impersonate Shingen full-time. At first, even the thief is unaware of Shingen's death, until he tries to break into a huge jar, believing it to contain treasure, and instead finds Shingen's preserved corpse. After this act, the generals decide they cannot trust the thief and set him free.
The Takeda leaders secretly dump the jar with Shingen's corpse into Lake Suwa. Spies working for Tokugawa and his ally, Oda Nobunaga witness the disposal of the jar, and suspect that Shingen has died and go to report the death. The thief, however, overhearing the spies, goes to offer his services hoping to be of some use to Shingen in death. The Takeda clan preserves the cover-up by saying they were making an offering of sake to the god of the lake.
The spies follow the Takeda army as they march home from the siege. Although they suspect that Shingen has died, they are later convinced by the kagemusha's performance.
Returning home, the kagemusha successfully fools Shingen's concubines and grandson. By imitating Shingen's gestures and learning more about him, the kagemusha begins to take on the persona of Shingen, and is able to awe even the bodyguards and wakashu who knew Shingen best. When he must preside over a clan council, and is unexpectedly asked for his decision on a military matter, he cleverly relies on the clan motto, which identifies Shingen with an unmoving mountain.
When Tokugawa and Oda Nobunaga launch an attack against Takeda territory. Shingen's son, Katsuyori, launches a counterattack against the advice of other generals. The kagemusha is forced to lead reinforcements to the Battle of Takatenjin, and helps inspire the troops to victory.
In a fit of overconfidence, the kagemusha attempts to ride Shingen's spirited horse. When he falls off those who rush to help him see that he does not have their lord's battle scars and he is revealed as an impostor. The thief is driven out of the palace, and Katsuyori, despite being disinherited, takes over the clan.
In full control of the Takeda army, Katsuyori leads an ill-advised attack against Oda Nobunaga, who controls Kyoto, resulting in the Battle of Nagashino. Wave after wave of cavalry and infantry are cut down by volleys of matchlock fire, effectively wiping out the Takeda. During this scene, much of the battle is offscreen. Although the charge of the Takeda army and the volley of fire from Nobunaga's soldiers is seen, the actual deaths of the Takeda men is not shown until the battle is over and the viewer sees a vast scene of carnage as more time is given to the aftermath. (In reality, the clan continued under Katsuyori's leadership for years after the battle). The kagemusha, who has followed the Takeda army, witnesses the slaughter. In a final show of loyalty, he takes up a lance and makes a futile charge against Oda's fortifications, ultimately dying for the Takeda clan. The final image is of the kagemusha's bullet-riddled body being washed away down a river, next to the flag of the Takeda clan.
The use of an actor/double, the death by gunshot, parallelling events in the flick. I wonder how CountArach suddenly became a target... I speculate there must have been a caveat in his role PM, like: "If you reveal your true identity, you lose immunity from attack and you are fair game for killing". And how would the ninja & traitors know that? Andres must have told them, after CA's reveal - which floored me, I admit. I anticipated a plot-twist, but not that.
So now, does some (alive) townie get the role of clan leader? Does that guy get any special abilities (like investigations/resurrections)?
We have at least 3, and probably 4, killers still on the loose, hidden among 16 players. Despite some excellent discussion, I see no solid reason to abandon the strategy of using the Banquo's Ghost list of uninvestigated guys to work up suspects.
If I were alive and able to vote, I'd start with the non-participators & non-voters on BG's not-investigated list (who oddly haven't been WoG'd - therefore casting suspicion on them). If we "get" two of them in the next two day phases, we stand a chance of victory, setting aside another plot twist.
Andres, our esteemed host seems to be (very loosely) following the plot of Kagemusha, the Kurosawa movie. Wiki summary in spoilers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The film opens with a shot of what appears to be three identical Shingens. One really is Shingen, the second is his brother, Nobukado. The third man is a thief who Nobukado accidentally came across and spared from crucifixion, believing the thief's uncanny resemblance to Shingen would prove useful. Shingen agrees that he would prove useful as a double and they decide to use the thief as a kagemusha.
Shingen's army has besieged a castle of Tokugawa Ieyasu. When Shingen visits the battlefield to hear a mysterious nightly flute player, he is shot by a sniper. Mortally wounded, he orders his generals to keep his death a secret for three years. Shingen later dies while being carried over a mountain pass, with only a small group of witnesses.
Nobukado presents the thief to the generals and contrives a plan to have this kagemusha impersonate Shingen full-time. At first, even the thief is unaware of Shingen's death, until he tries to break into a huge jar, believing it to contain treasure, and instead finds Shingen's preserved corpse. After this act, the generals decide they cannot trust the thief and set him free.
The Takeda leaders secretly dump the jar with Shingen's corpse into Lake Suwa. Spies working for Tokugawa and his ally, Oda Nobunaga witness the disposal of the jar, and suspect that Shingen has died and go to report the death. The thief, however, overhearing the spies, goes to offer his services hoping to be of some use to Shingen in death. The Takeda clan preserves the cover-up by saying they were making an offering of sake to the god of the lake.
The spies follow the Takeda army as they march home from the siege. Although they suspect that Shingen has died, they are later convinced by the kagemusha's performance.
Returning home, the kagemusha successfully fools Shingen's concubines and grandson. By imitating Shingen's gestures and learning more about him, the kagemusha begins to take on the persona of Shingen, and is able to awe even the bodyguards and wakashu who knew Shingen best. When he must preside over a clan council, and is unexpectedly asked for his decision on a military matter, he cleverly relies on the clan motto, which identifies Shingen with an unmoving mountain.
When Tokugawa and Oda Nobunaga launch an attack against Takeda territory. Shingen's son, Katsuyori, launches a counterattack against the advice of other generals. The kagemusha is forced to lead reinforcements to the Battle of Takatenjin, and helps inspire the troops to victory.
In a fit of overconfidence, the kagemusha attempts to ride Shingen's spirited horse. When he falls off those who rush to help him see that he does not have their lord's battle scars and he is revealed as an impostor. The thief is driven out of the palace, and Katsuyori, despite being disinherited, takes over the clan.
In full control of the Takeda army, Katsuyori leads an ill-advised attack against Oda Nobunaga, who controls Kyoto, resulting in the Battle of Nagashino. Wave after wave of cavalry and infantry are cut down by volleys of matchlock fire, effectively wiping out the Takeda. During this scene, much of the battle is offscreen. Although the charge of the Takeda army and the volley of fire from Nobunaga's soldiers is seen, the actual deaths of the Takeda men is not shown until the battle is over and the viewer sees a vast scene of carnage as more time is given to the aftermath. (In reality, the clan continued under Katsuyori's leadership for years after the battle). The kagemusha, who has followed the Takeda army, witnesses the slaughter. In a final show of loyalty, he takes up a lance and makes a futile charge against Oda's fortifications, ultimately dying for the Takeda clan. The final image is of the kagemusha's bullet-riddled body being washed away down a river, next to the flag of the Takeda clan.
The use of an actor/double, the death by gunshot, parallelling events in the flick. I wonder how CountArach suddenly became a target... I speculate there must have been a caveat in his role PM, like: "If you reveal your true identity, you lose immunity from attack and you are fair game for killing". And how would the ninja & traitors know that? Andres must have told them, after CA's reveal - which floored me, I admit. I anticipated a plot-twist, but not that.
So now, does some (alive) townie get the role of clan leader? Does that guy get any special abilities (like investigations/resurrections)?
We have at least 3, and probably 4, killers still on the loose, hidden among 16 players. Despite some excellent discussion, I see no solid reason to abandon the strategy of using the Banquo's Ghost list of uninvestigated guys to work up suspects.
If I were alive and able to vote, I'd start with the non-participators & non-voters on BG's not-investigated list (who oddly haven't been WoG'd - therefore casting suspicion on them). If we "get" two of them in the next two day phases, we stand a chance of victory, setting aside another plot twist.
...I was in the belief that you (Sasaki Kojiro) were protected that night due to the fact that you were the real Shingen, while Count Arach was merely a kagemusha...
Kudos A pity we didn't pursue that avenue more thoroughly, at the time.
But your other statement:
They knew CA was vulnerable after all the swordmasters were killed.
I believe you believe that, but I don't understand, still. How do/did the killers know the swordmasters? Via investigation? Nightly kill narrative? How would they know how many there were? And why did they waste kill time on peons like me, if they knew who the best targets were?
I guess that will all be revealed in the game summary and the other forum reveal, but it's stumbling blocks like those that have made a decent town strategy almost impossible to craft.
I believe you believe that, but I don't understand, still. How do/did the killers know the swordmasters? Via investigation? Nightly kill narrative? How would they know how many there were? And why did they waste kill time on peons like me, if they knew who the best targets were?
Gobble survived a hit without someone else protecting him. This happened to other people previously, and was a clear sign that he was a swordmaster. Thus, prior to last night they mafia knew that two swordmasters were dead and knew that Gobble was the last one. This is why Sasaki revealed: he apparently believed he had nothing to lose anyway since his protection was blown.
I believe you believe that, but I don't understand, still. How do/did the killers know the swordmasters? Via investigation? Nightly kill narrative? How would they know how many there were? And why did they waste kill time on peons like me, if they knew who the best targets were?
I guess that will all be revealed in the game summary and the other forum reveal, but it's stumbling blocks like those that have made a decent town strategy almost impossible to craft.
The role list revealed that there were three of them. Husar was revealed through a random nightly kill.The other two they knew via Banquo's reveal. Banquo had investigated our swordmasters, propably due to CA's suggestion and on his reveal list they stuck out quite badly. The writeups then revealed that they had struck true as they had with Husar. As to your death, it is possible that someone used a one time kill ability on you. Also you need to remember that we have to two hostile factions among us and eventually they need to kill each other as well.
Friendship, Fun & Honour!
"The Prussian army always attacks."
-Frederick the Great
The role list revealed that there were three of them. Husar was revealed through a random nightly kill.The other two they knew via Banquo's reveal. Banquo had investigated our swordmasters, propably due to CA's suggestion and on his reveal list they stuck out quite badly. The writeups then revealed that they had struck true as they had with Husar. As to your death, it is possible that someone used a one time kill ability on you. Also you need to remember that we have to two hostile factions among us and eventually they need to kill each other as well.
I see. So my murder by ninja-poisoning (unusual then, but not anymore, with CA's ricebowl) was a "thinking ahead" move by them to eliminate not only town, but also a possible Traitor-faction member.
Good, then. They wasted a kill on me, via my other-than-innocent investigation result. I have served my Lord; though Traitors therefore (by my interpretation) remain in your midst.
Re: Swords in the Moon
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Originally Posted by KukriKhan
A pity we didn't pursue that avenue more thoroughly, at the time.
My kingdom for a
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