Upkeep!

**Sic semper tyrannis** · 05-09-2009, 07:02

Playing as Prussia I am only a couple of territories away from the Long victory. It's so frustrating only being able to maintain 3 stacks (even with virtually no navy) when I have to leave a full stack in a city for 8-10 years for resistance to foreign occupation to subside. Combine that with the AI's unwillingness to declare a truce even after I beat back attacks and counterattacked to take some of their own lands, and it really draws out the games - frustratingly rather than rewardingly.

**Sic semper tyrannis** · 05-09-2009, 07:05

Oh yeah. I meant to ask if anyone has any tips on getting captured cities to accept you more easily. I'm already rebuilding government repression type buildings as soon as I can. Religion isn't the big factor it was in MxTW, but I'm plugging away at that too. I just need my armies to be more mobile and less police oriented.

**Monsieur Alphonse** · 05-09-2009, 07:23

Change your government type to a constitutional government, it has less problems with unrest. Demolish all unrest causing buildings in newly captured regions especially schools.

**Babblearossa** · 05-09-2009, 07:48

I'm not terribly far into my first post-patch campaign, but I've taken to keeping taxes up (instead of exempting for a few turns, another option ) and letting them rebel while keeping a 1/2 stack in the city. The rebels so far are always a few milita and maybe a gun or two, ez pz. Then I get the 5 point military crackdown bonus.

**Fisherking** · 05-09-2009, 08:46

I think population size has an impact but eliminating the faction seems to have some positive results on it also.

This is a some what new problem and the best methods may yet to be discovered.

I know that the worst place I have captured so far was Brandenburg as Austria. I went through 3 full cycles and started on a fourth before it subsided when East Prussia fell. I kept the school and had religious differences of course, but I did build a pleasure town.

Places like the Rhineland and Hanover had it before the patch. I shudder to think of what it will be like now.

If you have the funds you can tare out a town and build one of the happy places.

It is meant to slow your progress but with Prussia I didn’t have any long protracted unrest. I was able to take all the required areas in 10 years. I left Poland with one region and made them a protectorate and that also brought me Coreland as a protectorate.

Once you have dragoons it will be much less of a problem.

**Sic semper tyrannis** · 05-09-2009, 09:05

Dragoons provide a bonus to keeping civil unrest down? If I remember correctly, the narrative mentions this but I didn't know it would be reflected in-game. By far the worst for me was Vienna. I had to keep a full stack there for ~18 turns and a half stack for another 10 to put down the continuous rebellions. When I captured it the plebs were at -30something happiness. I have never seen the occupation figure shrink by more than one per turn, regardless of how many troops I keep there. You would think a brutal peacekeeping force led by a decorated general would have a long term impact by influencing the rate in addition to the per-turn garrison.

**NimitsTexan** · 05-11-2009, 10:03

Originally Posted by Sic semper tyrannis

Playing as Prussia I am only a couple of territories away from the Long victory. It's so frustrating only being able to maintain 3 stacks (even with virtually no navy)

Especially considering, given that a unit is more or less supposed to be a regiment, European armies should be able to field of a 100+ regiments (e.g. at least 5 full stacks).

**AussieGiant** · 05-11-2009, 10:15

Originally Posted by NimitsTexan

Especially considering, given that a unit is more or less supposed to be a regiment, European armies should be able to field of a 100+ regiments (e.g. at least 5 full stacks).

Wildly optimistic there and totally not accurate. France perhaps, otherwise name me one nation in Europe that had a 100 000 man armies for any length of time.

List:

France

next?

**NimitsTexan** · 05-11-2009, 10:42

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

Wildly optimistic there and totally not accurate. France perhaps, otherwise name me one nation in Europe that had a 100 000 man armies for any length of time.

List:

France

next?

The British Army at the end of the Seven Years War had 100,000 men in 115 regiments. (5 stacks)

In the 1740s, the Prussians had 85,000 men under arms. (4 Stacks)

During the War of the League of Augsberg, the French army fielded 250,000 - 400,000 men. (12-20 stacks).

The Austrian Army at the beginning of the Napoleonic Wars/Wars of Revolution was 200,000 strong (split between Austria and Italy). (10 stacks)

The Russian Army of 1800 was 400,000-500,000 strong. (20-25 stacks)

**AussieGiant** · 05-11-2009, 13:51

References NimitsTexan? And please don't Wiki me.

About the only military force greater than 100 000 for any length of time in the period was France.

I'd say at a rough stab most of the main powers at the time could just manage 100 000 troops for a limited amount of time.

Please note my point is not that it wasn't possible, but simply that it wasn't sustainable for any length of time. Most big battles were 30 000 to 60 000, and when those battles occured it was pretty much everything that could be mustered at the time.

The exception was France of course, but it was extremely unusual.

My List:

Start of 1700

France: 200 000

Spain: 44 000

Dutch: 80 000

English:30 000

Austria: 25 000

Prussian: 40 000

http://www.spanishsuccession.nl/balance.html

**stufer** · 05-11-2009, 14:26

Aussie Giant,

The website you have linked to is a great website and I use that all the time. However, it is only dealing with the very beginning of the century. Industrialisation and urbanisation led to rapidly increasing popluations in the 18th Century and the armies of most European nations rose to match.

There were a lot of 100,000 plus armies in Europe later in the century. For at least half the period covered, Britain had an army of between 80 and 100 regiments - just of infantry. There were cavalry regiments on top of that, plus pioneers, artillerists etc... Britain's was considered a small army for the time.

Don't forget that colonial powers raised local forces too - Indian troops, American troops, native troops of all kinds.

The British had a massive mercenary army of the East India company too - don't know the size of that but it wasn't considered part of the British Army.

I'm reading a great book at the moment called Redcoat by Richard Holmes. Has a lot of detail in there about Britain and the army scarcely dipped below 100,000 in that period (1750-1850 - so a good half of the time period covered by the game). He says it was a small army by the standards of the age and scarcely up to the task of protracted continental war without being in a coalition of other allied nations. It was better suited to raiding etc... and colonial conflict. The true might of Britain lay in the Navy.

Don't have a lot of info about other nations though. Perhaps others could comment.

**NimitsTexan** · 05-18-2009, 07:08

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

References NimitsTexan? [/URL]

Battle for Europe by Charles Spencer

Crucible of War by Fred Anderson

http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

**Razor1952** · 05-20-2009, 00:56

Originally Posted by Sic semper tyrannis

Playing as Prussia I am only a couple of territories away from the Long victory. It's so frustrating only being able to maintain 3 stacks (even with virtually no navy) when I have to leave a full stack in a city for 8-10 years for resistance to foreign occupation to subside. Combine that with the AI's unwillingness to declare a truce even after I beat back attacks and counterattacked to take some of their own lands, and it really draws out the games - frustratingly rather than rewardingly.

getting this thread back on track.

2 things also to do

1. check your ministers traits , often they have -1 or -2 repression so kick them out. Also put in if you have the right govt , those with +1 traits.

2. Let your province rebel and crush those rebels , that gives +5(or=6) which degrades over time. Do it again if necessary, and do it while your army is still at home. Crush two rebellions and you get +10 , make sure you play out the battle to crush all the troops, otherwise they will escape and you won't get the bonus till they are all eliminated.

As mentioned.
Also build dragoons or cheap upkeep troops to garrison when your main army leaves

As for religious , I have seen -4/5 but can turn this to +2 by converting populace. Gang up your religious agents and send en masse.

Of course destroy all colleges and even demolish all towns to build churches/bawdys till things stabilize.

Otherwise dissent just degrades -1/turn

Btw you usually can get a peace (and a protectorate) if the opponent is done from 2 to 1 provinces. Otherwise taking 2 provinces and immediately suing for peace usually works. getting a peace also gets all their troops out of your provinces and allows you to regroup. Usually also protectorates made this way will redeclare after a few turns, then you eliminate that faction.

It actually a bit of an exploit as their appears to be no penalty diplomatically for breaking alliances/ peace treaties except for the target country to you.