EB Online Faction Guide

[Jebivjetar]

I agree. Why didn't you just post this on my guide in EB game play
guides and AAR's? Like it any way.

I missed that i guess. Anyway i can't found it even now.


O, and i think i've typed something wrong in my previous post (because of my bad english). I wanted to say that Charthaginian army rooster have some similarities with roman and Hellenic army rooster, and that's why i think that Carthage shouldn't be in "Hellene" category. They have their own hard coree troops though. So, put them in special category gamegeek2

And... i can't resist: you can put romans together with other barbs as well. Would be nice

[gamegeek2]

Created Pahlava's own category.

What does Qarthadast have more in common with Romans than Hellenes? Sure, the African Heavy Infantry are essentially legionnaires, but look at the following parallels

African Pikemen - Argyraspidai/Chaonion Agema/Klerouchon Agema
Sacred Band Cavalry - Hetairoi/Molosson Agema
Sacred Band Inf - Hypaspistai/Epilektoi Hoplitai
Libyan Spearmen - Thureophoroi
Heavy Libyans - Thorakitai
Liby-Phoenician Inf - Hoplitai
Iberian Assault Inf - Pheraspidai

The other, native Iberian units don't count, they're essentially foreign natives.

The first guide I'll write is for Qart-Hadast. Start posting info on them.

[Jebivjetar]

Created Pahlava's own category.

What does Qarthadast have more in common with Romans than Hellenes? Sure, the African Heavy Infantry are essentially legionnaires, but look at the following parallels

African Pikemen - Argyraspidai/Chaonion Agema/Klerouchon Agema
Sacred Band Cavalry - Hetairoi/Molosson Agema
Sacred Band Inf - Hypaspistai/Epilektoi Hoplitai
Libyan Spearmen - Thureophoroi
Heavy Libyans - Thorakitai
Liby-Phoenician Inf - Hoplitai
Iberian Assault Inf - Pheraspidai

The other, native Iberian units don't count, they're essentially foreign natives.

In that case, Kart-Hadast can be put together even with nomads because of their Iberian Lancers (something lke armoured h/a's without archers), and with barbs because of their hard-core ap troops like elite liby-phoenican infantry (barb: naked fanatics or wildmen) and so on.

Anyway, Carthaginian pikemen are elite, and strategy of Carthagian army on the field is supposed to be very different than Hellenic pike-phalanx-based field development. I know that in mp battles many users (including myself) are acting very similar as Hellenes with pikes as a core troops, but this is just an example of searching for best-suited strategy for Carthaginians, and not a definite Carthaginian strategy. If you take Hannibal as an example, you'll see what i'm talking about: their mix of various types of infantry makes them specific.

Because of that Carthage must be in its own category.

Carthage deserves that


EDIT: i have also developed mechanism for breaking phalanx line, but it works only with AI... tried that on Maion in mp , but it doesn't work. Damn And its not about encirclement: with some mix of Carthaginian troops one can beat any phalanx you like- from the front: without cheating (like running through phalanx).

I'll post a picture very soon. It may be useful for some players.


EDIT No2 (a picture)

[zooeyglass]

Great thread - i'm keen to contribute.

Stupid question, but I better say it all the same:

What kind of information do you want in the guide? I was thinking of trying my hand at a Casse (or maybe Pontus) guide but wanted some clarification. I suppose the ideal guide would contain some of the following headings:

- Early game - first 12 turns or so - strategy for survival/initial conquest/economy management

- Family members - effective selection/training/what types of family members to expect and how best to use them

- Army composition - key troops/starting strategies/things to try out/cheap deals for troops

- Expansion - key points/what governments to install/routes to take/tips/ambush points/chokepoints

- Late(r) game - (i'm imagining after 20 years here) optimum army composition/effective expansion (not leaving things so that you are exposed/weakened/open to revolt)/training of FMs/supply lines / all important reforms - if these have not been covered already!

gamegeek2, i think it would be a good idea if you were to provide everyone with a structure for their guides, which each guide writer could fill in - that way, each guide will be comparable, and guide readers will know what to expect. of course my list in no way covered all the bases one could expect from a guide, but i hope that at least showed some of the options a guide writer might have. if there were to be some kind of recommended structure then we would avoid one guide that just covered turns 1-12, another that was just an army composition guide, and so on and so forth.

thoughts?

[Svenn]

"Their cavalry is decent but somewhat lackluster" - a bit contradictory perhaps?

Also, i think Getai and Casse should be in different categories. Getai dont have chariots, Casse dont have decent archers, Hoplites or Horse archers. I think the only similarity is that they both wear trousers.

Apart from that, i think its a good idea

[vartan]

without cheating (like running through phalanx).

Why is this a cheat? Didn't soldiers move aside pikes or something? How did they historically go against pikes from the front?

[Jebivjetar]

Why is this a cheat? Didn't soldiers move aside pikes or something? How did they historically go against pikes from the front?

I was thinking about exploiting the phalanx, you know, when one sends his troops to run through the phalanx... In mp that is pure cheating.
I don't think that, historically, soldiers did actually run through spears to reach phalangites: i think that they should have to make their way through pikes first to engage soldiers later, and that is another story, and it takes much more time (read: fight). If you just run through pikes, you're actually cheating.

[DaciaJC]

I was thinking about exploiting the phalanx, you know, when one sends his troops to run through the phalanx... In mp that is pure cheating.

If you just run through pikes, you're actually cheating.

Easy to say when the RTW engine favors you. Phalangites can magically pick up their 20+ foot sarissas after already being engaged, swing them around 180* in the air, and then impale flanking enemies upon them when they bring them back level to the ground (even if that ground is currently being covered with enemy troops).

What's even better is when they don't even bother raising their sarissas but simply swing them around like a giant scythe through enemies.

[antisocialmunky]

The only analogue to the run through would be for hoplites or other heavily armored close order infantry to simulate their push. Greek Hoplites pushing did manage to stop the Macedonian style phalanxes on atleast two occassions.

The EB engine is rather strange when it comes to any sort of formation warfare. You can actually put a unit in defense mode and order it to attack a phalanx. The effect is that the units will run past all the pikes and engage the front rank of pikemen befall stalling out and getting poked away.

That being said, you probably should keep in mind that its not that particularly hard to counter if you're expecting it.

[Maion Maroneios]

Why is this a cheat? Didn't soldiers move aside pikes or something? How did they historically go against pikes from the front?

Because phalanxes get ripped apart this way. It is an exploit, not a tactic that would have been used. Trying to run behind a pikewall would result in you getting impaled upon the speartips.

Occassional tactics to get past pikes, would be to try and shove aside the pikes with a shield, using wedge formations to "penetrate" the pikewall, or rolling uder it. All tactics may have caused some mayhem (especially against levied soldiers), but an experienced unit of pikemen would easily be able to counter such tactics, especially when they have former experience with them.

Maion

[Celtic_Punk]

but your cowardly pikewalls would be broken eventually