EB Online Faction Guide

**Jebivjetar** · 06-04-2009, 10:53

Originally Posted by vartan

Why is this a cheat? Didn't soldiers move aside pikes or something? How did they historically go against pikes from the front?

I was thinking about exploiting the phalanx, you know, when one sends his troops to run through the phalanx... In mp that is pure cheating.
I don't think that, historically, soldiers did actually run through spears to reach phalangites: i think that they should have to make their way through pikes first to engage soldiers later, and that is another story, and it takes much more time (read: fight). If you just run through pikes, you're actually cheating.

**DaciaJC** · 06-08-2009, 03:03

Originally Posted by Jebivjetar

I was thinking about exploiting the phalanx, you know, when one sends his troops to run through the phalanx... In mp that is pure cheating.

If you just run through pikes, you're actually cheating.

Easy to say when the RTW engine favors you. Phalangites can magically pick up their 20+ foot sarissas after already being engaged, swing them around 180* in the air, and then impale flanking enemies upon them when they bring them back level to the ground (even if that ground is currently being covered with enemy troops).

What's even better is when they don't even bother raising their sarissas but simply swing them around like a giant scythe through enemies.

**antisocialmunky** · 06-08-2009, 03:41

The only analogue to the run through would be for hoplites or other heavily armored close order infantry to simulate their push. Greek Hoplites pushing did manage to stop the Macedonian style phalanxes on atleast two occassions.

The EB engine is rather strange when it comes to any sort of formation warfare. You can actually put a unit in defense mode and order it to attack a phalanx. The effect is that the units will run past all the pikes and engage the front rank of pikemen befall stalling out and getting poked away.

That being said, you probably should keep in mind that its not that particularly hard to counter if you're expecting it.

**Maion Maroneios** · 06-08-2009, 08:43

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

The only analogue to the run through would be for hoplites or other heavily armored close order infantry to simulate their push. Greek Hoplites pushing did manage to stop the Macedonian style phalanxes on atleast two occassions.

The EB engine is rather strange when it comes to any sort of formation warfare. You can actually put a unit in defense mode and order it to attack a phalanx. The effect is that the units will run past all the pikes and engage the front rank of pikemen befall stalling out and getting poked away.

That being said, you probably should keep in mind that its not that particularly hard to counter if you're expecting it.

Beig able to efficiently "push" through a pikewall has to do with many things. First and foremost, armour and a decent shield. Hoplites could (theoretically, at least) break a pikewall by pushing enough. Bu that doesn't mean it could happen every time.

See, I had fought a battle once against ACS who played the Sweboz. He said he'd wipe me off the floor in less than 2 minutes. He did. He used swordsmen with silver chevrons and weapon upgrades and, after running behind my pikewall, started butchering my main line. While I was busy flanking him in earnest and managing to actually deliver several back charges with my Hetairoi, the morale bonuses plus the fact that my line was already routing gave him a (quite) easy victory.

What I want to say, is that people should stop complaining about ot being able to use the phalanx exlpoit. You already debate about lowering the mnai limit (which is going to cripple us enough), debating about doing something that is probably highly ahistorical would be nonsense. IMO, it was not the fact that other nations had superior infantry that they won over the Hellenes. It was theit stubborness (Romans) and refusal to surrender when beaten repeatedly (Pyrrhos). Not to forget that "hiding behind pikes" gave several men (Megas Alexandros, Pyrrhos) some wonderful victories to brag about.

Maion

**Jebivjetar** · 06-08-2009, 11:58

Well, once i have played with one guy who smashed my phalanx in less than one minute by exploit, and i must say that wasn't a game. So i suggest that "phalanx exploiters" should warn their opponent before the battle about their intentions. I will never play with such players anymore. Amen.

Btw against AI is very easy to beat phalanxes without cheating. So i don't know why should one even try to exploit phalanx.

**Knight of Heaven** · 06-08-2009, 14:33

well if you want ahistorical facts forget phalanx exploit, what about hetarioi spawn???
their descripition says they were lower in number yet again i found myself using 3 heatrioi or 2 each companny with 50 units on then, i mean its not very acurrate too.
we have distinguised hoplites and other units with reduced numbers why not the hetarioi? well but i belive its EB engine fault. Historicaly the number of phalanx in a army varies but 6 is also to much, for instance the battle of magnesia Anthiocus only had 2 groups of phalanx, One native and other silver shields, of course they were like 4000, 6000 men each phalanx, maybe nerfing the phalanx numbers on EB?? yet again its Eb,or rome engine fault, or maybe not we just have to reach a consense. if we want to folow historical armies. they didnt use phalanx as we use it. maybe 3 or 2 groups of phalanx with inf on suport is how they use it.

**Duguntz** · 06-08-2009, 18:10

phalanx exploit? f*** **f!!! That's not an exploit, that's a weak point they got, that's all. It's like to say : don't use archer against my naked fanas, it's using their weakness and so must be considered as exploit. Yeah, to toss a 21 foot sarrisa away to punch the guy in the face must have been difficult when facing a wall but certainly not impossible! I'm not encouraging to run threw phalanx, i don't do it myself (because my guys have no armors at all... so it'd kill too many of them) but to all hellenes lovers, stop crying that because your phalanx get smashed in a way that it's exploiting the system and damn, accept that even your pike elites have their weakness, wich, in war, is there to be EXPLOITED by your ennemy! yeah, that's the point of war... to exploit the weak points of your ennemy. so, if you don't like that, well, find a way to counter it! we call it : STRATEGY!