Twitter discussion

[Phalanx300]

Wow great news!

#1 While there's a discussion going on about which form of hoplite fighting techniques were used, our mod decided to go for the overhand alternative because there's oodles more information and evidence in favour of this theory.
#2 Going for the overhand option doesn't mean that the hoplite wouldn't have used the spear underhand or utilized its buttspike. One of the reasons for adding that spike was to use it as alternative weapon when the point breaked during battle (which was not uncommon) or when the conditions of the battle dictated that it was advisable to use it in detriment of the point.
#3 Because of that, it is not a-historical to make the hoplite us its buttspike on exceptional events like the one posted. Rather, its the other way around.
#4 The clipping is avoided by the reasons explained on this post.
#5 While your argument regarding the close shield wall (synaspismos) has merit, for engine reasons, we cannot represent it in a way that is 100% faithful to the historical synaspismos during a charge, because the hoplites give too much space between them during the charge, and don't maintain their shield wall as they do when they are idle. We are trying to solve this.

The usage of this kind of exceptional movements (be underhand, be thrusting with the buttspike) is undisputed historically (it is like saying that a legionary never used a slashing stroke to the legs during battle. What if it was advisable for him to do so, even though his training dictated that he had to do only precise stabbing attacks to preserve stamina?).

Gameplay-wise, we are just trying to give you guys something cool to see like this animation, but if it doesn't work ingame, we will dump it. As simple as that.

Historical-wise: It isn't ahistorical. As simple as that.

PS: In the videos you posted, the shield wall they are representing is ahistorical. The shields should be placed like this. One in the back, and the next one in the front.

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#1 Well underhand is used in some vases yet I've never seen underhand used in a depiction of a battle but in a duel. While overhand is used to portray battles a lot.
#2 Yes it was used, but to charge in with it and then changing it at the last moment to overhand seems impossible. Eespecially if you figure that both parties charge, because of the impact of both lines charges you can sure hit your opponent with underhand but you will never be able to change it back to overhand with your allies pushing from the back and your enemies pushing from the front.(and what now is the front pike will hurt someone in the back).
#3 Them using underhand in formation does indeed seem unhistorical to me. To use the buttspike in an underhand overhead way when the spear has broken does seem realistic to me but to charge in with it when I think about both lines charging just seems too unpractical to get it to overhand again.

Is it Historical? In loose order fighting definately. In the Phalanx, it just isn't practical considering the time and space needed to change it back to overhand.

I'm not saying the use of the butt pike is unhistorical, just the way how its use in the animation.

Never seen the Phalanx like that! You have some more information on that?

Also here you can see on the vases that the group does portray the Hoplite Phalanx how its portrayed there with locked shields:

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/vie...p?f=63&t=27460

Universities have even contacted the group to get to know the system of the Phalanx better.

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Not all fighting was done in formation though... And I'd rather have variety over making everything look 100% accurate with the current engine.

Well no, but for Hoplites formation can make all the diverance for victory. Well is that the true EB way?