Yeah! Debates!

Quote Originally Posted by Maion Maroneios View Post
Do you know what I actually don't understand? Isn't it natural for the Sweboz to die like flies when their soldiers are unarmoured? That's just the nature of their military, I don't really understand why you guys are so obsessed with bringing everyone down to the same level. If you want a "fair" fight with the Sweboz, just make sure you fight a battle in woods or something. Ambushes, anyone? The purpose of this Tournament, as far as I've understood, is just to put all factions together and determine the winner through some restrictions that are the same for all factions. By bringing everyone to the same level, you loose the point of the whole Tournament.
I'm not trying to make everyone super balanced atleast I'd like to think that. The main reason for giving the Germans and Getai that weapon upgrade was to preserve their weakness to missiles but allow them to make up for one of their advantages: numbers. Do you think it would be as easy to win if the Germans or Getai decided to bring 30-40 units against you? Their budget and unit costs would allow it BUT they aren't allowed to. How is THAT fair to them? The problem with the tournement is that it was based on the assumption that the game is funnest with 20 unit armies. That is true. Its epic and fun, balanced on the micromanagement front, but its not balanced numbers wise. The best solution would be to use a custom edu that gave them bigger units @ scaled up price.

I mean, it wasn't 16K Greeks against 12K Persians at Gaugamela was it?

Do you want a solution from me? Implement the defender-chooses-his-battleground system. Because I know simply shouting the rule system is wrong is not right and won't get anywere. The only thing I ask you to do, at least, is to simply consider my points and aknowledge that what you're doing is bringing all factions down to the same level. Every faction has its own weaknesses and strong points, that's just the way things are no matter what you want to believe. The Romans didn't beat the Macedonians because they had better quality armies per se (which they did, by the way), but because they were more prepared, has must greater resources and the determination to keep coming back.
This is somewhat already true. The problem is that if we did that, we would have to manage each battle to decide who gets boned by the map. The whole point of this tournement setup was to have as little management as possible. Now its up to the individual players to decide who gets to host and pick the map.

As for chevrons, well. The Romans really have more money than they can spend unless they pick elephants in Polybian every time. Like the Getai, they should be able to mass larger armies(about the same as one with a large phalanx contingent) in game but can't be exploited online. If you want to really be anal retentive about it, pretend all Polybian Romans that fight your Maks are Punic War veterans and its the first Macedonian War. :-p

But if you still refuse to listen to me and take those fingers out of your ears, I guess there is no other option left that to actually let you see what is going to happen practically if those rules are implemented. And I want to see if you're going to have the guts to admit you were wrong then, because I'm almost certain our victory percentages are going to fall at least above 40%. Just to show you, I'm probably going to fight several battles with some mates with the new rules, and show you the results.

Maion
I'm not ignoring you guys. That's why I posted that post this morning to get you guys to shoot back. Go test the modified rules and report back with the results. I want to know if its truely balanced. Goes for anyone else who has time.

Argumentation that barbarians should die like flies would be indeed reasonable - but only if other historical condition is also met - that barbarians are present by sheer numbers on battlefield.
Since it is simply not possible in EB, and actually this is hellens who dominate also numerically - thanks to their big phalanx units - then favoring barbarians in some way is rather out of question.

My thinking now is to keep 40 000 budget - that way barbarians can spend not only for additional elites but also more units can get 1 chevron.
I dunno about it. Though you are right, 40K is needed for the Gauls and their extra elites. I guess I'll set it back up there. 36K just seemed to me the best balance for Hellenic factions and their elite/levy %'s.

I like most of these rules, but not all. My biggest complain is the way to determine elite(/heavy) when descriptions do not help. But not only.
Do we really want to make lists? I can do the ones for Rome and Baktria... It might be for the best if we have an official list. Most of the EB vets know what's elite and not by heart so I guess it wouldn't be too hard if everyone pitched in.

Which Hamachi severs will be used for the tournament?
EBOT2 still should have some room. Password EB. The official tournement rooms will open later and I'll boot people at around 6PM (bi)daily to keep them open.