Neda...

[Kadagar_AV]

OK, so this woman called neda was killed in Iran.

Was she the only one killed in Iran that day?
Was she the only one killed in the world that day?

My point being: Everyone who dies has a history comparable to this girl... Sure she was cute, sure it's been all a hype...

But isnt it dangerous when we start to trust the news to feed us information? The "news" are not out to get the story straight, they are more interested in viewer numbers...

So how come this murder (Oh, sorry, not murder... in previous talks with americans I came to realise they refuse to see state-ordered assassinations to be murders as they are, well, state ordered).... Let me rephrase, how come this type of "collateral damage" is frowned upon when other types of collateral damage is not?

And why is Neda worth more than the several others who died by the police in Iran the last couple of days?

Don't get me wrong... I am all with the mainstream on the Iranian situation. However, I also think of children who dies of starvation every day... And I also consider the people who died that the media did not deem user friendly enough.

The way i see it, the world is becoming more and more like zombies...

[Lemur]

In other words:

Victims? Don't be melodramatic. Look at the people down there. Tell me. Would you really feel any pity if one of those dots stopped moving forever? If I offered you twenty thousand pounds for every dot that stopped, would you really, old man, tell me to keep my money, or would you calculate how many dots you could afford to spare? Free of income tax, old man. Free of income tax — the only way you can save money nowadays.

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love — they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. So long.

[Kadagar_AV]

Nevermind :)

EDITED: keep on :)

[KukriKhan]

(Oh, sorry, not murder... in previous talks with americans I came to realise they refuse to see state-ordered assassinations to be murders as they are, well, state ordered)

rofl. True to form. High marks for consistency.

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She's the only casualty (so far) caught on video. If 1 picture = 1,000 words, 30 seconds of cellphone vid of a bloody woman's final seconds alive = 15 volumes.

[FactionHeir]

Going back to the thread about hitting women, its also interesting how the media highlights women protesters being beaten and pretty much ignores the male protesters who suffer the same or worse.

[LittleGrizzly]

Kadagar do you really need an american reference in every political post... im not a fan of some of thier policys either but give it a break every now and then...

Its just one more level up the shock scale, first its men, then women, children and the old share the last level somewhere. If you add in things like good looking and young just moves it slightly more up the scale. I don't anyone thinks for a second if she had serious skin condition(s) and hardly any teeth left she would have got quite as much attention. My cynical point of view...

Her death is sad and i mourn it equally to all the other people who die in the troubles in Iran...

Isn't this inside the monatorium period ? Not that it matters as no one wishes her ill anyway...

[Kadagar_AV]

rofl. True to form. High marks for consistency.

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She's the only casualty (so far) caught on video. If 1 picture = 1,000 words, 30 seconds of cellphone vid of a bloody woman's final seconds alive = 15 volumes.

"True to form?" You cant blame me when it is JUST SO EASY... I mean, if someone lets the ball up for a smash I will smash....


Back on topic, you claim you don't know the difference between 15 volumes of death and one woman caught on video?

That is tragic



Factionheir, Males are born to be brutalised, are we not? It doesnt sound very cool when it is reported that men are being hit by the police...

It's the same all over the world...

A womans broken fingernail is a males broken arm :)

[Papewaio]

One is a tragic individual we can identify with.
One million is a statistic.

It's the way we relate to things.

[Xiahou]

And why is Neda worth more than the several others who died by the police in Iran the last couple of days?

The short answer is, of course, that her death was caught on tape.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I suppose the premise of this thread is: 'Why is one death person remembered over so many unremembered others?
Or even: why Neda, and not a thousand others, Palestinian, Iraqi, Iranian or others? Or possibly: why not those deaths who could, depending one one's political point of view, be ascribed to the aggression of American and like-minded states?'

Which I am not going to argue here, apart from admitting that the questions can not simply be dismissed as rhetoric.


Why Neda?

Because of what Pape, said, because of what Xiahou said, because of what Andres said.


Because she symbolises innocence struck down by beastliness - an analogy to tyranny oppressing freedom.
Because she is easy to identify with for many people. A homeless man beaten to death, an African starving to death, they are more difficult to identify with than Neda.
Because of many things, not least of which because Neda is, simply, stunningly attractive. Her striking physical appearance combines with the circumstances of her death, with the serene brutality, into a haunting image. I have not been able to watch more than two seconds of the video of her death, nor do I know if I'll ever will or would want to.
A simple foto-collage that I watched earlier brought me to tears already. I couldn't bear watching the video.

She haunts me, she really does.

[Moros]

Also it's not that all those famous pictures that became symbols for causes contained actractive women. It's about time that an atractive woman got in one of them, it's almost as if they were discriminated by the men taking such photographs!
Think about it.
Remember that guy lying in front of a chinese tank? He wasn't an attractive woman.
Remember the little girl from vietnam running as she was getting burned by Napalm? She wasn't attractive woman
Remeber the guy getting shot by a vietnamese officer and his hadngun? Not a pretty gal either.
Remember the jew sitting in front of massgrave getting shot by a german officer in Vinnitsa? Not a pretty girl.

You see it became bloody hell time one of them was pretty girl! No more pictoral descrimination to beautifull women getting killed by governments!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Remeber the guy getting shot by a vietnamese officer and his hadngun? Not a pretty gal either....

The person whom you label as "the guy" was a Viet Cong spy/infiltrator and had been involved in assassination efforts sans uniform and not during military operations. Like Hale, the deceased too may have regretted only having one life to give for his cause, but that's the breaks for spys during war. No, he certainly was not a pretty gal.

[Devastatin Dave]

Simply put, its hard to watch a chick you wouldn't mind playing hide the sausage die on camera.

[InsaneApache]

I suppose the premise of this thread is: 'Why is one death person remembered over so many unremembered others?
Or even: why Neda, and not a thousand others, Palestinian, Iraqi, Iranian or others? Or possibly: why not those deaths who could, depending one one's political point of view, be ascribed to the aggression of American and like-minded states?'

Which I am not going to argue here, apart from admitting that the questions can not simply be dismissed as rhetoric.


Why Neda?

Because of what Pape, said, because of what Xiahou said, because of what Andres said.


Because she symbolises innocence struck down by beastliness - an analogy to tyranny oppressing freedom.
Because she is easy to identify with for many people. A homeless man beaten to death, an African starving to death, they are more difficult to identify with than Neda.
Because of many things, not least of which because Neda is, simply, stunningly attractive. Her striking physical appearance combines with the circumstances of her death, with the serene brutality, into a haunting image. I have not been able to watch more than two seconds of the video of her death, nor do I know if I'll ever will or would want to.
A simple foto-collage that I watched earlier brought me to tears already. I couldn't bear watching the video.

She haunts me, she really does.

I've just steeled myself to watch it. Harrowing. The look in her eyes made me feel very un-nerved. I wish I hadn't but I have so I'll have to live with it. I'm with Pape and the rest about why we feel empathy for one or two people but not tens of thousands. It's more than the brain can handle.

In the immortal words of Ian Dury, what a waste.

[Fragony]

I'm with Pape and the rest about why we feel empathy for one or two people but not tens of thousands. It's more than the brain can handle.

Must be it, I don't remember me becomming cold

[rory_20_uk]

As dear Stalin put it: "One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic". Humans like a narrative. We respond better to images and video than lines of numbers. The young always are more "interesting" that the old. How often does a bomb kill people - including 3 children or women and children were killed - as though these deaths are somehow more noteworthy that the men who were maimed and killed.

Anything can be normalised by repetition. The first person I saw die was harrowing. When I was doing Care of the Elderly I sat down for lunch, got up half way through to certify someone and then went back and finished my sandwich.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I've just steeled myself to watch it. Harrowing. The look in her eyes made me feel very un-nerved. I wish I hadn't but I have so I'll have to live with it.

I am still wavering about watching.

As somebody once said (a poet? A priest?): of all the days, the day of your death is the most sacred.

There is a certain sacred intimacy to somebody's dying moments. I am not sure I want to intrude upon it.

There are many reasons to do watch it. Amongst others, Iranians risk everything to make and distribute these videos. Am I disrespectful by knowing but not watching?


This was one of the longest posts I've ever written, in a stream of consciousness to dwarf Joyce, until my computer ate it. The above two sentences will have to make do.

[InsaneApache]

It's when these 'far off' struggles hit a presonal level that we take notice. After all, we have better other things to do...

[Whacker]

I am still wavering about watching.

As somebody once said (a poet? A priest?): of all the days, the day of your death is the most sacred.

There is a certain sacred intimacy to somebody's dying moments. I am not sure I want to intrude upon it.

There are many reasons to do watch it. Amongst others, Iranians risk everything to make and distribute these videos. Am I disrespectful by knowing but not watching?


This was one of the longest posts I've ever written, in a stream of consciousness to dwarf Joyce, until my computer ate it. The above two sentences will have to make do.

I wouldn't watch it if I were you.

Disclaimer, I did, partially on accident. My extreme curiosity has made me see things on the internet that I will regret watching the rest of my life, and sometimes do very much haunt me. I have woken up from nightmares in cold sweats before from the things I've seen, and I'm not joking or being overly dramatic.

I think not watching carries no stigma whatsoever, nor is it disrespectful in any way, shape, or form to her memory or the cause that she's come to symbolize. Forcing yourself to watch won't give you any greater insight or depth, or ability to intelligently discuss the situation.

My $0.02 USD.

[Andres]

And why is Neda worth more than the several others who died by the police in Iran the last couple of days?

She's a symbol

I don't see why you should get all worked up about the fact that a specific person X has the questionable honor of serving as a symbol.

[CountArach]

She's a symbol

I don't see why you should get all worked up about the fact that a specific person X has the questionable honor of serving as a symbol.

QFT.

[miotas]

I just watched the video and felt nothing. Sure it's a terrible loss of life, but I find it hard to feel anything for people that I don't know. They are just images on a screne to me. Someone I don't know killed someone I will never meet in a situation I can do nothing about I just can't muster up any feelings, and I don't see why I should worry myself.

[LittleGrizzly]

TBH same here miotas, i can watch hundreds slughtered on TV without much feeling, logically i know its a waste and terrible for all her loved ones... emotionally the event is removed from me and me from it...

I always figured i was just a bit of a cold person... or maybe your a cold hearted person too miotas

That being said get me watching a character in a move or something and build the person up to me (add a few joints) then kill them in some tragic or heroic way and ill blubber like a little girl... only when im by myself... don't tell anyone okay ?

[Fragony]

You don't understand what's going on there, this could be just as important as the collapse of the wall.

[LittleGrizzly]

Its not that its not important, I think it is or hope it could be. I just don't really get an emotional attachment to people i don't know...

[Louis VI the Fat]

[Ice]

Iran's police chief, brigadier general Ahmadi-Moghaddam told the press on June 30 that the Iranian police and ministry of information filed an arrest warrant for Interpol to arrest Dr. Arash Hejazi, an eyewitness of Neda's death for poisoning the international atmosphere against the Iranian government and telling misinformation to the foreign media about Neda's death.[51] In fact, Dr. Hejazi's name is not in the Interpol's website's wanted list.[52][53]

Good for Interpol. Like I've previously said, I hope for young Iranians this is the start of a new beginning.

[Fragony]

muha

[Subotan]

[Fragony]

Small protests, not so small from what I've heard of but what can you be sure of in mullah-land. They should understand that there is no greater force than people desiring individual freedom, these bearded pricks can't win the die has been cast. If it isn't now it's soon, this is not going to end unlesss these bearded pricks kill everyone, good luck doing that.