Diplomacy is entirely broken

[FactionHeir]

I love this "diplomacy"



Um hello, this offer makes no sense given that I share no borders or enemies with Russia....


In other news, my long time ally France decided to attack my friendly ally Genoa. Decided to side with Genoa as they have helped in in naval battles before. Three turns later and France is down to just Saxony in Europe, and its northern holdings in America, having lost France, Savoy, Rhineland, Württemberg, French Guyana and Windward Islands to me.

So I offer them peace, figure that since we share loads of mutual enemies and France has no trade partners whatsoever left and is at war with everyone and their dog, they ought to accept in their dire position. Well, guess what, they didn't.

In 1.0-1.2 at least, they'd accept peace once you take just France itself. If you took a bit more, they'd even throw in all their regions save their new capitol. 1.3 and they reject any peace treaty, even when I even offered to throw in a dozen techs and 30000 in cash.

They also seem to have no problem fielding 3 full stacks composed of line infantry and 12lber artillery 60-40 ratio. I wonder where they get all that money when I can barely field 4 full stacks and hold most of America, and the left side and the bottom of Europe along with all the Med islands.

[Didz]

Um hello, this offer makes no sense given that I share no borders or enemies with Russia....

Lol! it probably makes perfect sense to the Russian's. Obviously they are getting fed up with Vodka and have acquired a taste for rum. I love the 16,000 fee though thats really cheeky.

[FactionHeir]

A few turns earlier they made the same offer to me, only asking 7500

Oh, and I only have a few enemies because some of the hapless ones who managed to declare war on me didn't exactly live very long. And of course my French allies back then were ridiculously aggressive, taking out Westphalia, Württemberg, and Saxony within a few turns.

[Marquis of Roland]

Um hello, this offer makes no sense given that I share no borders or enemies with Russia....

What doesn't make sense about it, the Russians want Jamaica. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't mind having Jamaica in my Prussian campaign, and the only interaction I ever had with Spain was requesting a trade agreement 40 years ago. I agree that the terms are crap.

I think its a good thing that they fixed the factions accepting peace if you take their home region. Its an exploit to take someone's home region and then get a peace treaty.

As for the AI getting income bonuses, don't you think it's better that they do? I mean, right now the AI is not sending enough stacks to challenge you, if they're more restricted, there won't be much fighting in this "total war" game. Or you'll see factions attacking with their lone stack of troops and leave their capital totally undefended, then we'll all blame the dumb AI for leaving their capital completely wide open.

I am getting the feeling that some people want this game to be another type of game. In the end, ETW is not a STRATEGY game, it's more of a war game. Diplomacy is not great in this game, never meant to be great, nor do I think it will EVER be great. I think most of you guys not happy with the diplomacy just needs to accept that fact. The game is centered on fighting battles in battle mode; the campaign map is merely a means to get you to battle mode. Even all the technologies in the game are more or less geared towards fielding a full stack, to be used in battle mode. Not a single tech promotes diplomacy. This game was never meant to be won with diplomacy (no diplomatic victory conditions either. In every game I played with good diplomacy, there was always a diplomatic victory option).

For those that say this ruins their roleplaying - I also like to roleplay my campaign, but if you expect this to be even loosely based on historical interactions, then you'll be disappointed. If you roleplay you ought to be comfortable with making stuff up. I have never gotten a DoW that I cannot make up a reason for.

[Fisherking]

It seems as though we are going through some very odd diplomatic gyrations in this game.

As far as I can remember the best we had was the first ideation in 1.0, from there it has just been down hill.

Yes there was a problem of factions swapping lands in a rather strange fashion but at least most of the rest of the diplomacy was somewhat sound.

Now the DoWs are not as fast and furious as they were but they will not make peace nor exchange regions even to save their little lives.

It seems that each time they take one step forward and two steps back, not to mention the occasional sidestep.

The closest I have come to a peace agreement in my current campaign was from Spain. I offered them Spain, half a dozen or so techs for Mexico and peace.

The counter offer was all of the above, less Mexico and I give them 7200 cash. Needless to say I was in the position to name terms, not them, so now they hold only Lombardy and that will be for maybe another three turns before they die, that is if I bother with them at all.

France bought it pretty much the same way. The would not give up Newfoundland for France and so were eliminated. They were under siege and refused the offer of peace and France. Not very reasonable of them now was it?

The minors never offer or except peace now!

[FactionHeir]

What doesn't make sense about it, the Russians want Jamaica. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't mind having Jamaica in my Prussian campaign, and the only interaction I ever had with Spain was requesting a trade agreement 40 years ago. I agree that the terms are crap.

I think its a good thing that they fixed the factions accepting peace if you take their home region. Its an exploit to take someone's home region and then get a peace treaty.

As for the AI getting income bonuses, don't you think it's better that they do? I mean, right now the AI is not sending enough stacks to challenge you, if they're more restricted, there won't be much fighting in this "total war" game. Or you'll see factions attacking with their lone stack of troops and leave their capital totally undefended, then we'll all blame the dumb AI for leaving their capital completely wide open.

I am getting the feeling that some people want this game to be another type of game. In the end, ETW is not a STRATEGY game, it's more of a war game. Diplomacy is not great in this game, never meant to be great, nor do I think it will EVER be great. I think most of you guys not happy with the diplomacy just needs to accept that fact. The game is centered on fighting battles in battle mode; the campaign map is merely a means to get you to battle mode. Even all the technologies in the game are more or less geared towards fielding a full stack, to be used in battle mode. Not a single tech promotes diplomacy. This game was never meant to be won with diplomacy (no diplomatic victory conditions either. In every game I played with good diplomacy, there was always a diplomatic victory option).

For those that say this ruins their roleplaying - I also like to roleplay my campaign, but if you expect this to be even loosely based on historical interactions, then you'll be disappointed. If you roleplay you ought to be comfortable with making stuff up. I have never gotten a DoW that I cannot make up a reason for.

I would ask you to take off your pink glasses and actually look at my screenshot. There's nothing wrong with Russia wanting Jamaica, but offering me mil access and demanding Jamaica and 16000 from me is hardly a reasonable offer.

[Fisherking]

I would ask you to take off your pink glasses and actually look at my screenshot. There's nothing wrong with Russia wanting Jamaica, but offering me mil access and demanding Jamaica and 16000 from me is hardly a reasonable offer.

Indeed it is a very unreasonable offer!

And if refused I guess that means they declare war.

I have not tried counter offering these proposals yet to see what happens.

I just think this process is turning out to be one of those steps back and sideways.

[Didz]

I am getting the feeling that some people want this game to be another type of game. In the end, ETW is not a STRATEGY game, it's more of a war game.

Suggesting that ETW is a wargame is actually an insult to wargaming. It most definitely is NOT a wargame. If it was it would accurately model the warfare of the period and the campaign system would work, diplomacy included.

At best ETW is a strategy game, and at the moment its struggling to even meet that standard.

[NimitsTexan]

The campaign difficulty level does have some small effect on things. On Hard, for example, just about every European nation and their dogs DoW on Austria in the first couple of turns. On Medium, while Austria does eventually get itself into wars, Central Europe takes a little longer to get itself into a total war.

[Lemur]

I have to say, the extreme difficulty of securing peace is making the game a lot less fun. When Britain attacks Denmark, you now know that if you defend your ally you'll be at war with the limeys for another seventy years. Ugh.

[Husar]

The campaign difficulty level does have some small effect on things. On Hard, for example, just about every European nation and their dogs DoW on Austria in the first couple of turns. On Medium, while Austria does eventually get itself into wars, Central Europe takes a little longer to get itself into a total war.

Well, that's just another problem, if I play on normal or easy, I get less declarations of war but the AI will only have small armies which are no challenge once we do go to war, if I got to Very High, every faction is finally a challenge(well, somewhat) but they will all go to war with me at the same time like a bunch of zerglings or whatever, and then I can't just destroy their army, take a city and make them accept peace, no, the black knight routine makes them fight to their last city so if I can't afford to have two big stacks standing around in their corner and a few small ones to hunt their little pillaging parties then I will have to expand through all of russia which completely defeats all sorts of roleplaying I might have planned which is a major part of the enjoyment.

I also had the idea that introducing non-aggression pacts might be a splendid idea and while you're at it, make them binding for the human AND the AI, set number of rounds, no need to help them when they get themselves into pointless wars like it's the case with alliances and they can't backstab you either.

That would make up for a few of the AIs stupidities, given the factions would actually accept such proposals now and then.

[Durallan]

What doesn't make sense about it, the Russians want Jamaica. Nothing wrong with that. I wouldn't mind having Jamaica in my Prussian campaign, and the only interaction I ever had with Spain was requesting a trade agreement 40 years ago. I agree that the terms are crap.

I think its a good thing that they fixed the factions accepting peace if you take their home region. Its an exploit to take someone's home region and then get a peace treaty.

As for the AI getting income bonuses, don't you think it's better that they do? I mean, right now the AI is not sending enough stacks to challenge you, if they're more restricted, there won't be much fighting in this "total war" game. Or you'll see factions attacking with their lone stack of troops and leave their capital totally undefended, then we'll all blame the dumb AI for leaving their capital completely wide open.

I am getting the feeling that some people want this game to be another type of game. In the end, ETW is not a STRATEGY game, it's more of a war game. Diplomacy is not great in this game, never meant to be great, nor do I think it will EVER be great. I think most of you guys not happy with the diplomacy just needs to accept that fact. The game is centered on fighting battles in battle mode; the campaign map is merely a means to get you to battle mode. Even all the technologies in the game are more or less geared towards fielding a full stack, to be used in battle mode. Not a single tech promotes diplomacy. This game was never meant to be won with diplomacy (no diplomatic victory conditions either. In every game I played with good diplomacy, there was always a diplomatic victory option).

For those that say this ruins their roleplaying - I also like to roleplay my campaign, but if you expect this to be even loosely based on historical interactions, then you'll be disappointed. If you roleplay you ought to be comfortable with making stuff up. I have never gotten a DoW that I cannot make up a reason for.

Pulled this directly off the official Empire total war site...

"And the Campaign Map -- for many, the heart of Total War -- introduces a variety of new and upgraded elements, including new systems for Trade, Diplomacy and Espionage with agents; a refined and streamlined UI; improved Advisors; and a vastly extended scope, taking in the riches of India, the turbulence of Europe and, for the first time, the untapped potential of the United States of America."

This also directly off the offical Empire Total War site

"Empire: Total War is set in the 18th century, a turbulent era that is the most requested by Total War’s loyal fan base and a period alive with global conflict, revolutionary fervour and technological advances. With themes such as the Industrial Revolution, America’s struggle for independence, the race to control Eastern trade routes and the globalisation of war on land and sea,Empire: Total War promises to be the richest and most dynamic PC strategy game of all time. Empire: Total War will be released from the 3rd of March, exclusively for PC."

They reiterated it on release day...

"Empire: Total War is set in the 18th century, a turbulent era that is the most requested by Total War’s loyal fan base and a period alive with global conflict, revolutionary fervour and technological advances. With themes such as the Industrial Revolution, America’s struggle for independence, the race to control Eastern trade routes and the globalisation of war on land and sea, Empire: Total War promises to be the richest and most dynamic PC RTS game of all time."

The developers think its a strategy game...