EB Online Tournement Battle Report Thread

[NeoSpartan]

Neospartan, that replay with me was not considered a tourney match, right?

This replay was not was NOT from the friendly 3 battles we did last night.

that was the only trouney battle we did.... The same day I tournied against spiritusdilutus (ROME), and another guy with KH (he left the tournie)

I did not have an account to upload replays so after each tourny battle I asked people to upload them for me. Unfortunatly when we fought I didn't ask you before hand so you didn't save the replay. Thats why I had to post it late, once I opened an account to upload stuff.

However.... this is assuming I understood you correctly that time.

[NeoSpartan]

Tournie battle update...

this was a battle with antisocialmunky..... after one remake.

http://www.filefront.com/14080033/Aedui-Saka5.rpy

It was a tough Victory. HOWEVER, antisocial was basically drilling me on the "don't charge/run over ur own troops" and the "don't run over enemy troop".

Later we tried a friendly battle with Aedui vs Polybian Rome, but antisocial decided not to continue. Explaining i was still "charging over people" and whatnot. Well... be that as it may... 2 self notes for the future:

1- I am making some tests to later, in another thread, talk about them.
2- When playing with antisocialmunky be easy with my maneuvers.

---------------------------------------------------

Next is a double whammy of:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

CASSE VS AEDUI

Oh M**F** YEAH! THE Only two western barbarian factions went on head to head battles. Making full use of naked guys, chariots, big ol' swords, face-paint, and whatnot. They both know that Uirodusios are not elite troops so they used as many as they needed.

Battle #1:
http://www.filefront.com/14080087/CasseDefeat6.rpy

Oh my DANG! Aedui got their A** BEAT!
-In the beginning it looked like they were going to win, but Casse quickly recovered and came out to win the battle.

Battle #2:
http://www.filefront.com/14080097/Aedui-Casse7.rpy

.... and the Aedui decided to cut the bull**** and do some butt kicking!

In the end, the courage displayed by the Casse general was so admired that a group of Gaesatae decided to have a fair fight with him and his men. He won that fight. But then the Aedui General said enough was enough and charged him and sent a group of Neitos to finish them off.

[JinandJuice]

Yeah admittedly you do like to do that.

[Parallel Pain]

Well... be that as it may... 2 self notes for the future:

1- I am making some tests to later, in another thread, talk about them.
2- When playing with antisocialmunky be easy with my maneuvers.

That is incorrect. Change it to:
1- I will read the tournament rules before playing
2- I will follow the tournament rules
3- I will not cheat

NeoSpartan if you want your battles to count follow the rules. I am not going to go through all the replays, but if someone makes a complaint about you overlapping units or charging through your own engaged infantry with your cavalry or charging through enemy units you did not rout, the battle is not going to count.

Scores
http://www.filefront.com/14083855/Post243.xls/

1)tsidneku 13-5 = 8
1)JinandJuice 11-3 = 8
2)Fluvius Camillus 6-0 = 6
3)NeoSpartan 6-1 = 5
ACS 7-4 = 3
Antisocialmunky 7-5 = 2
Agrippa 6-5 = 1
Gabeed 11-10 = 1
Vartan 3-2 = 1
Mithick666 2-2 = 0
Jebivjetar 1-1 = 0
Phalanx300 0
Kniva 0
Apázlinemjó 0
Alexander: 0
mountaingoat 0
Flavius_Belisarius 2-3 = -1
Lestat 0-1 = -1
Maris: 0-1 = -1
Parallel_Pain 4-6 = -2
darius_d 2-5 = -3
m0r1d1n 2-6 = -4
"Hiero" 2-7= -5
spiritusdilutus 5-10 = -5
Alsatia 0-13 = -13

Battle counts
Singles: 76
Doubles: 6
1vs2: 1

Due to my method of using excel, in a 1v2 battle each pair will get 1 point change. If 1 wins, he gets 2 points. If he looses, he looses 2 points. Until I can think of a better way on excel to make the battle more even, that's how it is going to be counted unless ASM or the battle participants (spiritusdilutus, Alsatia, Moridin) objects.

Double check your scores.

And to make my life easier please clearly state who was fighting and who won.

EDITED: NeoSpartanvsAntisocialmunky battle included

[NeoSpartan]

aight... if you guys are going to pressure me to keep my infantry out of the way when I charge then thats good.

The effectivness of the charge is severly reduced when a player charges through units, my aim is to create a space for my cavarly to hit the flank. Doesn't always happen... but with this new pressure from you guys to accomodate and improve my game, it won't happen just need some practice ya'all.

[spiritusdilutus]

@Spiritusdilutus:

About that battle i posted, i want to know: do we agree that it should be counted as a tournament battle or not? Today i'm not sure anymore... and i don't want to force things.

So, if you don't want this battle to be for tournament, post your reply here. In that case: i'm waiting for you on Hamachi!!

Normally I would say yes, but could we not count it, cause I would have had my game on if it had been a tourney match, we must have misunderstood each other at that point, as we firstly mentioned that a friendly match ought to be in order, to test the stability of the network.

[antisocialmunky]

Its the morale penalty when units get when charged regardless of damage. Since there isn't definative morale charts for RTW, we can't tell but it existed in MTW(but it was around -10 for a flank charge). There are also issues with kill rates and % alive in RTW. I mean, 15 morale is a butt ton of morale even in EB terms. That's more than most units in EB.

Give him the battle he posted. He did well though he had an extra naked spearman. I'm not sure where he came up with the 3 units of men that flanked me. I quit the Polybian battle because I saw 1/2 of a unit of cavalry going through Gaesatae. Its okay if some of your units hang on a unit especially on huge if you're charging near your men but that doesn't make it okay that your attack vector purposely intersects a unit. Just because Celts make every battle a mess isn't a good excuse for it.

You guys should thank Parallel Pain if you see him - he volunteered to tally the scores for you. I'm also surprised that Saba hasn't faired terriby reaching a 2:3 ratio. Arche is the team to beat so go for it :).

[Jebivjetar]

Normally I would say yes, but could we not count it, cause I would have had my game on if it had been a tourney match, we must have misunderstood each other at that point, as we firstly mentioned that a friendly match ought to be in order, to test the stability of the network.

Yeah, i guess...
And damn that network if it chrushes again while we play tourney match, like it did one time before that succesful game i posted

[Parallel Pain]

Give him the battle he posted. He did well though he had an extra naked spearman. I'm not sure where he came up with the 3 units of men that flanked me. I quit the Polybian battle because I saw 1/2 of a unit of cavalry going through Gaesatae. Its okay if some of your units hang on a unit especially on huge if you're charging near your men but that doesn't make it okay that your attack vector purposely intersects a unit. Just because Celts make every battle a mess isn't a good excuse for it.

You guys should thank Parallel Pain if you see him - he volunteered to tally the scores for you. I'm also surprised that Saba hasn't faired terriby reaching a 2:3 ratio. Arche is the team to beat so go for it :).

Done. And thank you.

It's 2:3 and not worse mostly because I haven't been playing much

[NeoSpartan]

Done. And thank you.

It's 2:3 and not better mostly because I haven't been playing much

fixed

[antisocialmunky]

Saba is more winning than KH is :-(.

[Jebivjetar]

Yesterday was a bloody day... Armies of Carthage and Rome fought a battle and it could be described as a very long butchering on the both side.

The pre-battle deal was that Romans should attack (i've balanced my army just for defense), while Carthaginians should hold their lines to defend them selves. After a long skirmish, Roman main line came close to Carthaginian and after some time of waiting we decided to attack: if anyone is about to see that reply, he will understand why defenders attacked.

Very bad decisions were made on the both sides, and the battle was somewhat confusing and "weird". At the end, 2 Carthaginian elite pikemen saved the day, and with a few survivors bloody flower of victory goes to Carthage.

Spiritus: gg + wg (weird game)

http://www.filefront.com/14088573/Sp...sJebiWIN.rpy//

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

my battle against a new player, french-legionary, we played for tournament.

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3198...legionary1.rpy

imperial legion vs AS phalanxes: was intense battle, french-legionary formation was very close but my auxilliary knights did good work.
They killed AS cavalry and, after that, charge from back the phalanxes.
Thorakitai tried to protect phalanxes, but was too late and battle was lost for AS.

GG legionary at the next

another battle that i won against another great opponent: jinandjuice

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php/3198...nandreplay.rpy

The same imperial legion attaked an AS army in grassy plain.

Thank you jinand for being worthy opponent.



My score:

tsidneku(pontos), darius(chartage) x 2, hiero(KH) x 2, parallel pain(sabean),
gabeed(casse), french-legionary(AS), jinandjuice(AS)

9

tsidneku(pontos), fluvius camillus(AS) x 2, antisocialmunky(saka)

4

[Apázlinemjó]

Wow, nice stats and the tournament is going well, it seems. Anyway will be one in August too?

[antisocialmunky]

We're talking about it. Perhaps a change of format and a tweaked balancing.

[m0r1d1n]

Hail General Jebivjetar...leading the armies of carthage to victory again n again...

welll i come here with good tidings too...
my third tourney victory

carthage (me) vs french-legionary(arche selukia)...

http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=qnnld7hjrhf

gg to french-legionary

[vartan]

We're talking about it. Perhaps a change of format and a tweaked balancing.

Not to worry, because the changes will only apply to the August '09 EB Online Tournament. And about that...only got a week to discuss the changes. Finalize them by the last few days of this month and you've got yourself a solid foundation and reason to commence the August tournament.

Good luck.

[antisocialmunky]

I want to do some tweaks to unit balancing since certains things are not counterable because of rules we currently have in place(and NO, we aren't talking about cav).

[vartan]

I want to do some tweaks to unit balancing since certains things are not counterable because of rules we currently have in place(and NO, we aren't talking about cav).

Specificity and comm. input on your tweak ideas would be great!

Good luck.

[m0r1d1n]

We're talking about it. Perhaps a change of format and a tweaked balancing.

i have played around 16 matches with the tourney rules and i must say that even though i am losing overall, i have really enjoyed the whole tournament and the battles were really exciting...gr8 work by the organizers....
as for the new tourney, if i may, i would like to give my 2 cents...

put the cav. limit back to 3...with just 1 uber heavy cav(like which got def.>25 or charge > 35, like hetairoi, sacred band,iberianlancers, cataphracts etc.),
1 heavy (like thessalians, liby-phonecians, lonco guys...etc.) and 1 medium....this way the cav would balance itself out...
secondly,there should be a minimum limit too...like min. 3 missile units (foot),....
apart from that, a max limit on heavy infantry too (like 10 or 12), goes towards historically accurate armies...
the carthage and selukid armies just dont look right without the elephants...maybe some special mnai extension for bringing them in..



hey i just had another idea...i'm sure it must have been mentioned earlier too....
how about in the next tourney we set up battlefields and scenarios....with fixed armies and stuff...and the battles decide the fate of different cities (already identified)..
ok I may be getting carried away here....i'll stop

looking forward tothe next tourney...

[vartan]

I can see the max on heavy cav (specially for Romans) but the minimums are odd. For instance, Hayasdan players would tend to rely on their cavalry to win their battles, while Romans may depend on their infantry. What can be done about that? Current rules allow for flexibility in regards to this. Any say?

[Gabeed]

It'll take awhile, but it seems that rules should run on a faction-by-faction basis.

[m0r1d1n]

I can see the max on heavy cav (specially for Romans) but the minimums are odd. For instance, Hayasdan players would tend to rely on their cavalry to win their battles, while Romans may depend on their infantry. What can be done about that? Current rules allow for flexibility in regards to this. Any say?

my thought on the minimums is that they would ensure realistic armies..every army in every battle had cav(light, medium and heavy), inf(all 3 types) and skirmish (foot)..the current rules DO allow greater flexibility and it is fun ...but my idea was that we should try n replicate that

It'll take awhile, but it seems that rules should run on a faction-by-faction basis.

second that....different ratio for different factions...say more inf based roman army (but not all inf)..and couple of unit advantage for cav of eastern factions, but the no. of uber heavies need to be less, they are already too devestating...extra merc slots for carthies...etc.

also i would like to add that something must be done for KH...IMO they too need to rely on their infantry to win but their inf does'nt kill ppl and their cav aint gr8 shakes either

[JinandJuice]

Things is, some people may prefer all infantry instead of having any missile support. Take the "barbarian" factions for example: their missile units SUCK. Unless a player has leftover mnai, archers are almost worthless for gauls. I think we shouldn't have to put too many restrictions on units primarily to keep players guessing what units the other has. After all, intel (or lack of intel) is half the battle.

However, I support the idea that different factions should have different rules. Each faction fights differently, and it would be rather unfair to make them have the same rules as a typicall Hellenic faction.

EDIT: to prevent double posting, I'll put my battles here:

win vs Agrippa:
http://www.mediafire.com/?jvnyfvjyiyg

win vs ACS:
http://www.mediafire.com/?ynzfdfd0djo
a very respectable opponent. gg ACS!

[french-legionairy]

its special because i post a battle report and i lose this battle vs ACS. this is because ACS, the winner forgot to save replay ididnt save it also but i saved the video with fraps. here are the links of the battle.


part 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVvD...layer_embedded
part2;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnQc...layer_embedded
part3,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWBM...layer_embedded
part 4,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsAr...layer_embedded






very intense battle, it was clear that that optimization of flexibilty in coordinate all the army corps was the key of the victory. its was ACS who was better on it. he is very strong with cavalry. the way he maneuvre cavalry was decisive in this battle. therefore the battle was very close and my gallic naked regiment where dangerous

very good game

[JinandJuice]

Hey French,
let me first say that watching your battle on youtube was definitely more exciting (well, perhaps just different) than watching a replay, because we here get to see you make commands rather than view it in a third person perspective. However, let me add this: have you tried using the keyboard? It really helps when you don't have to click the run button with your mouse every 2 seconds.

[NeoSpartan]

Fellas.. although I am fairly new to this tourney I have done others in the past. I gotta say the 5 cavalry limit is OK, same with the 6 elite limit.

With cash of 36,000 it is very hard to train more than 6 Elites and not suffer having too few troops in the battlefield and risking being outflanked, outnumbered, outmaneuvered.

In addition, these rules give the player flexibility as the type of armies he is going to deploy. Although we read that KH and Romani armies mostly deployed infantry we have to understand that, for example, Romans deployed more cavalry + archers when campaigning against Parthia.

The armies you, as a general/player, deploy in the battlefield are also a response to the type of armies you will be facing.
For example: When I, as the Aedui, am facing Cohorts I deploy more axe (AP) wielding guys. When I face Casse I only deploy few of them. The only time I make lots of axe guys against Casse is if that particular Casse player starts deploying lots of armored troops.

-----------------------------------------------------------

As for KH cavalry, I suggest the player get a couple of Misthophoroi Thraikioi Prodromoi.
Their secondary weapon is AP and they have decent armor.

------------------------------------------------------------

As for rules based on a faction by faction basis... this is something that we sort off already have in place, but it could be expanded a little. We should start throwing some suggestions.

[NeoSpartan]

I'll star by throwing a few suggestions:
----------------------------------------------------------

For Aedui/Arverni/AS/Pontus/Casse

Have the Solduros/Arjos/Galatikoi Kuarothoroi/Rycalawre fight with swords only.
As I have noted before the effectivness of these units is severly reduced because they keep switching to spears when fighting. Because of this neither I, nor Gabeed, bother training these $3,000+ troops.

These guy are the top or among top elite units for their respective factions. Yet their spears bring them down a notch. For example, Solduros would beat Gaesate if they fough with swords only, as of right now they are almost even. (Gaesate wins most of the time ).

To do this the export.desc.file and maybe the preferences file (I can't remember) has to be tweaked with. Taking out the spear as the 2ndary weapon, leaving only swords.

I could upload the file, post it on the new tourney rulz thread, and have a link in my sig.

[Geticus]

Well I offer an outsider's view, I am not participating in the tourney but have been watching the replays with a good deal of interest, some very good games out there. And as primarily a eurobarb player I dont even play with the eastern style hammer/anvil cataphract armies much. That said I think the whole cavalry limit thing is overrated, people are losing battles because the don't micromanage their forces that well, turn them when charged et al. Heavy cataphracts lose stamina quickly, a few charges and some maneuvering and they are spent, light cavalry with good charge like leuke epos or Thraikian prodromoi can crush cataphracts, just look at some of the replays, ASM thrashed cataphracts with Roman equites extraordinarii which are nothing more than Xystophoroi with a different name, people also should practice using reserves and varying their infantry a bit- heavy spearmen anyone?? People should try to raise their game rather than burden the tournament rules with a bunch of red tape rules that will make it terminally boring. In general I think that it is better to take up a challenge and raise one's level of play rather than complain about whatever beat you, really these hammer/anvil eastern diadochoi armies are rather cookie cutter and the only reason they win so much is because few players know how to flank in detail.
Keep up the good battles.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, my thoughts on it:

We would also create heavy infantry category(non-fast infantry and around 12 max) so that central European factions get more, the phalanx limit would remain the same at 8 for Diadochi but 6 for the non-hellenic successors. There would be a max and minimum required skirmisher amount (units with skirmish) as well as a heavy archer limit(2 for west, 3 for asia on armored archers/slingers). We would tick the cav down by 1 for western factions(keep it 5 for Iberia and Carthage) but keep it at 5 for asiatic non-real-successor factions. Heavy cav is 2 for both. Semi-steppe/steppe factions(Baktria, Parthia, Indo-Saka, Sarmatians, Getai) get this further ticked up to 6 medium cav with a 3 heavy limit with an option to use light skirmisher cav(basically anything with a missile and no lance) instead of infantry skirmishers and they would have more skirmisher slots available.

The Western Barbarian factions would get an option to use any fast infantry in place of skirmishers(since most of their units are some sort of heavy skirmisher). Asian factions would also get the option to use their trademark levy spearmen/axemen hordes instead of skirmishers.

Saba would still have no rules :-p.

We'd also probably reclassify cavalry using the trait tags(excellent armor + lance = Heavy Cav, crap armor with or without lance = light cavalry, overhand spear = medium cavalry).

I'd completely abolish the elite limit since we aren't playing at 40K anymore.

CHART:
Greek and Roman:
4 Max Cav, 2 Max Heavies
12 Max Heavy Infantry, 8 Max Phalanx
6 Max skirmishers, 4 min. 2 Max Heavy Missile Units(skirmisher with armor like Makedonia Peltastai/Peltastai/Cretans).
4 Max Mercs

Casse, Gauls, Germans:
4 Max Cav, 2 Max Heavies
12 Max Heavy Infantry
8 Max skirmisher/light infantry, 4 Min. 2 Heavy Missile Units
4 Max Mercs

Iberians
5 Max Cav, 2 Max Heavies
10 Max Heavy Infantry
8 Max skirmisher/light infantry, 6 Min. 2 Heavy Missile Units
4 Max Mercs

Carthage
5 Max Cav, 2 Max Heavies
12 Max Heavy Infantry, 4 Max Phalanx
6 Max skirmsher/light infantry, 4 Min. 2 Heavy Missile Units
8 Max Mercs

Pontus/Hay
5 Max Cav, 2 Max Heavies
10 Max Heavy Infantry, 6 Max Phalanx
6 Max skirmsher/light infantry, 4 Min. 3 Heavy Missile Units

Parthia, Sarmatians, Indo Saka, Baktria
6 Max Medium Cav, 3 Max Heavies
8 Max Heavy Infantry, 6 Max Phalanx
8 Max skirmisher/light infantry/skirm cav, 6 min. 3 Heavy Missile Units(Cataphract Archers count as heavy archers for nomads though these count towards the Heavy cav as well).

Getae
5 Max Medium Cav, 2 Max Heavies
9 Max Heavy Infantry
8 Max skirmisher/light infantry/skirm cav 6 min 2 Heavy Missile Units

Saba
Win if you can.