KOTF OOC Thread

[Ramses II CP]

"I fart in your general direction, you 'nglish lover!! I shall out ponce you!!"

And Ramses, how about you pull your finger out of your arse and get involved.

This is not the volley ball scene from the TOP GUN movie, you're the dreadful horrifying lord of four skulls!!

I absolutely thought it was 72 hours for round one and 48 for round 2. No idea where I got that.

Still, there can be advantages in sizing things up while fools rush in...

[TheFlax]

I'd like to bring up a few points for the tournament.

First some rules additions and clarification.

Movement: Each avatar has a movement speed of 3 hexes, they can double this movement speed if they move in a straight line. If, while moving, an avatar enters a hex adjacent to an opponent, he becomes locked in combat and end his movement in that hex. If an avatar starts a round locked in combat and cannot move for that round.

In the event of of a fight containing multiple opponents against one knight:

What would happen would be that the lone knight would roll his attacks (say 1 dice for each knight for simplicity) and simultaneously, his two assailants would roll their attacks (1 each = two dice).

If either of the two knights get the higher roll, their side wins the attack and each would get to do damage to the lone knight.

If the lone knight gets the higher roll, he would do damage against one of the assailants (as he has one attack).

Finally, many of you have started giving me "contingency orders" as in "if this doesn't happen, I do that". In order to keep things simple, I will ask you to refrain sending such orders as I will not follow them anyways, taking only the first part of the order and executing it to be best of my abilities.

Also, some people have been sending me orders to "move one hex" or "charge that guy", I would very much appreciate it if you instead just gave me a hex number.

Thank you for your understanding.

[ULC]

I'd like to bring up a few points for the tournament.

First some rules additions and clarification.



In the event of of a fight containing multiple opponents against one knight:



Finally, many of you have started giving me "contingency orders" as in "if this doesn't happen, I do that". In order to keep things simple, I will ask you to refrain sending such orders as I will not follow them anyways, taking only the first part of the order and executing it to be best of my abilities.

Also, some people have been sending me orders to "move one hex" or "charge that guy", I would very much appreciate it if you instead just gave me a hex number.

Thank you for your understanding.

If my orders were not clear, please PM me

[TheFlax]

TheFlax: it might be good in the tournament feedback to know what blows (high, medium and low) people in combat struck in the previous turn. That way, we can play rock-paper-scissors (RPS) with some "history". Without seeing what your opponent chose last turn, it's hard to try anything psychological (some people can consistenly win RPS games, although I am not sure how).

Alright, once this round is resolved, I will post what stance each person in combat has used for all the rounds.

[Cecil XIX]

Finally, many of you have started giving me "contingency orders" as in "if this doesn't happen, I do that". In order to keep things simple, I will ask you to refrain sending such orders as I will not follow them anyways, taking only the first part of the order and executing it to be best of my abilities.

Does that mean when our avatars charge an enemy, they'll be too stupid to change course when the enemy gets out of the way?

[TheFlax]

Does that mean when our avatars charge an enemy, they'll be too stupid to change course when the enemy gets out of the way?

Consider it as momentum, when he moves out of the way you are already charging and cannot turn on a dime.

[Ituralde]

Interesting how nobody chose Medium as their stance.

Even more interesting who will choose it next round.

[OverKnight]

Even more interesting who will choose it next round.

Ugh, with stances public, everyone's going to try to outhink everyone else in the next round. I'm sure statistical anylases will be done, psych profiles read and much time wasted. Probably resulting in something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Man in Black: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead.
Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait til I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Vizzini: IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
Man in Black: Then make your choice.
Vizzini: I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be?
Vizzini: [Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. Roberts looks. Vizzini swaps the goblets]
Man in Black: What? Where? I don't see anything.
Vizzini: Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter.First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours.
Man in Black, Vizzini: [they drink ]
Man in Black: You guessed wrong.
Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
Vizzini: [Vizzini stops suddenly, and falls dead to the right]
Buttercup: And to think, all that time it was your cup that was poisoned.
Man in Black: They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder.

[deguerra]

Ugh, with stances public, everyone's going to try to outhink everyone else in the next round. I'm sure statistical anylases will be done, psych profiles read and much time wasted. Probably resulting in something like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Man in Black: All right. Where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It ends when you decide and we both drink, and find out who is right... and who is dead.
Vizzini: But it's so simple. All I have to do is divine from what I know of you: are you the sort of man who would put the poison into his own goblet or his enemy's? Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You've made your decision then?
Vizzini: Not remotely. Because iocane comes from Australia, as everyone knows, and Australia is entirely peopled with criminals, and criminals are used to having people not trust them, as you are not trusted by me, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you.
Man in Black: Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.
Vizzini: Wait til I get going! Now, where was I?
Man in Black: Australia.
Vizzini: Yes, Australia. And you must have suspected I would have known the powder's origin, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're just stalling now.
Vizzini: You'd like to think that, wouldn't you? You've beaten my giant, which means you're exceptionally strong, so you could've put the poison in your own goblet, trusting on your strength to save you, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But, you've also bested my Spaniard, which means you must have studied, and in studying you must have learned that man is mortal, so you would have put the poison as far from yourself as possible, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.
Man in Black: You're trying to trick me into giving away something. It won't work.
Vizzini: IT HAS WORKED! YOU'VE GIVEN EVERYTHING AWAY! I KNOW WHERE THE POISON IS!
Man in Black: Then make your choice.
Vizzini: I will, and I choose - What in the world can that be?
Vizzini: [Vizzini gestures up and away from the table. Roberts looks. Vizzini swaps the goblets]
Man in Black: What? Where? I don't see anything.
Vizzini: Well, I- I could have sworn I saw something. No matter.First, let's drink. Me from my glass, and you from yours.
Man in Black, Vizzini: [they drink ]
Man in Black: You guessed wrong.
Vizzini: You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses when your back was turned! Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha...
Vizzini: [Vizzini stops suddenly, and falls dead to the right]
Buttercup: And to think, all that time it was your cup that was poisoned.
Man in Black: They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder.

ah that takes me back. Though not that far back, I've watched it quite recently

[econ21]

We might need to think about the issue of communication between players of the same side. Until now, I have been trying to coordinate moves with red team via PM. However, discussing specific hex moves feels gamey and now that the battle lines are so inter-mingled, anything Hermant said would be heard by Raymond and potentially passed on by him to others on his side.

With tabletop battles, we sometimes prohibited communication between players except in character via the GM but I don't think this would work for the tournament setting, where any communication would be instantaneous.

It's a trade off: keeping open communication makes the tournament a potentially more strategic game, but on the other hand makes it feel less immersive and realistic.

On balance, I am wondering if we should stop OOC communications about tournament orders and instead allow each player one in character shout out per round and that it be done in a public thread (as Cecil did challenging Igno) - I guess the story one, unless we set up a temporary one. Restricting it to one public shout out per round is to avoid implausibly long tactical debates and to try to deal with the fact we are in different time zones, posting orders at different times etc.

Purely in character back and forth between enemies - like the Hermant vs Raymond dialogue - is fine however it is done.

Anyway, it's up to theFlax to decide, but from now on, I think I will stop trying to coordinate by PM. Bon chance everyone!

[Ituralde]

Coordination?
I knew there was something lacking on the blue side...

I agree though. We tried some coordination prior to the first round. Right now I limit myself to one off shouts to those close to me. I haven't figured in the enemies yet though.

[TinCow]

Any chance we can get a legend for the player images. For the life of me, I can't tell who is who anymore.

[OverKnight]

Any chance we can get a legend for the player images. For the life of me, I can't tell who is who anymore.

Did the best I could, somewhere between conversion of formats and adding text, the hexes went black. Looks cool though.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Small correction.. I only subbed Rowan and Alphonse la Hire is his avatar.

[TinCow]

Many thanks!

[Ramses II CP]

Regarding the stances, IMHO it's a mistake to try to outguess someone when you can't actually *see* them. My strategy is to roll a set of random numbers and follow it absolutely, ignoring my opponent's supposed tendencies.

This does nothing to increase my chances of victory, but it does a lot to prevent people from claiming they 'figured me out' after a statistically insiginificant number of random successes.

[ULC]

Regarding the stances, IMHO it's a mistake to try to outguess someone when you can't actually *see* them. My strategy is to roll a set of random numbers and follow it absolutely, ignoring my opponent's supposed tendencies.

This does nothing to increase my chances of victory, but it does a lot to prevent people from claiming they 'figured me out' after a statistically insiginificant number of random successes.

I bow to the Random.Org god as well

[AussieGiant]

Regarding the stances, IMHO it's a mistake to try to outguess someone when you can't actually *see* them. My strategy is to roll a set of random numbers and follow it absolutely, ignoring my opponent's supposed tendencies.

This does nothing to increase my chances of victory, but it does a lot to prevent people from claiming they 'figured me out' after a statistically insiginificant number of random successes.

What I like doing is having long drawn out discussion after the battle has ended and hearing all the explanations and "analysis" as to how they beat me.

Then depending on how I'm feeling I let them in on the secret, or not, as the case may be.

I've had some entertaining reactions.

[gibsonsg91921]

Hey homies, I hate to derail your out of character discussion, but we're still looking for people to play in Capo de Tutti Capi III in the Gameroom. I don't know if all of you guys are familiar with Seamus Fermanagh's Capo games, or even Mafia itself (brought you us by GeneralHankerchief, if I read my Org history correctly), but they're tremendous fun. Please join!

[Ignoramus]

Is Gaspard locked in combat with Bertin de Monsault this round?

[econ21]

Is Gaspard locked in combat with Bertin de Monsault this round?

Only theFlax can give a definitive answer to this, but my understanding is that any player adjacent to an enemy at the start of the turn cannot move.

[TinCow]

From the game rules:

Duration: The tournament will last 7 rounds or until only one team remains standing, whichever comes first.

We've already completed 4 rounds and not a single person is has even been captured yet. Is the tournament still going to end after 7 rounds, even if only most people are still standing at that point?

[econ21]

We've already completed 4 rounds and not a single person is has even been captured yet. Is the tournament still going to end after 7 rounds, even if only most people are still standing at that point?

There was not much combat in the first two rounds, but now the yellow (wounded) outnumber the green (unwounded), so I suspect quite a few will be captured by turn 7. Maybe theFlax (or the King) can decide whether to play on after turn 7, if it still looks inconclusive.

[TinCow]

There was not much combat in the first two rounds, but now the yellow (wounded) outnumber the green (unwounded), so I suspect quite a few will be captured by turn 7. Maybe theFlax (or the King) can decide whether to play on after turn 7, if it still looks inconclusive.

Does wounded indicate below half hitpoints or just less than full? I can't tell whether anyone (including myself) is seriously wounded or has just been scratched.

[econ21]

Does wounded indicate below half hitpoints or just less than full? I can't tell whether anyone (including myself) is seriously wounded or has just been scratched.

Less than full, I assume. Most of us have 8 hit points, so with 2D4 damage, we can expect to be around half strength if yellow. But you are right, there will be great variation, so we could just have 1 hit point or have 7.

With a duel with a risk of death, I think we would reveal the hit points - so people can decide whether to submit or hold back.

However, in this tournament, with the "scalp-hunting" victory condition, I can see some merit in not making the hitpoints public. Otherwise, we would probably see everyone piranha-like mob the guy with 1 HP, which would be a bit artificial and less fun. The closest modern equivalent to this kind of tournament might be a boxing match, where you don't really know how many "hit points" a fighter has mid-way through the fight.

[Rowan]

I like that we can't see hitpoints, because the whole concept is quite gamey. I'd rather keep it that way in the future as well, with all the risk and uncertainty that entails

[AussieGiant]

In this particular instance with the tournament then I agree with Econ.

We are pulling blows anyway so it's more representation than "real" as is the original design of the dueling rules in the game.

I'd say next round there will be at least 2-5 captures. It's a minimum of 2 HP damage with 2d4 which also makes the average damage far more probable. Two hits and you're out, or damn close.

-EDIT-

I also like the idea of a "less than perfect" representation of damage.

Perhaps a code as we have now plus good IC descriptions of the action is enough to ensure that damage is "available" to be determined, but not in a purely accurate manner.

[TinCow]

Ah, right. For some reason I was thinking that the 50/51 stats were our HPs, not the 8/10 stats. At 8/10, we should definitely start falling pretty quickly.

[AussieGiant]

Ah, right. For some reason I was thinking that the 50/51 stats were our HPs, not the 8/10 stats. At 8/10, we should definitely start falling pretty quickly.

That's a negative Ghostrider, 50/51 is fight value in case of drawn result, this then determines the winner based on all the lovely variables Econ has given values to.

[OverKnight]

That's a negative Ghostrider

AG, how many times have you seen Top Gun? Are you still mad at Tom Cruise for killing Goose?