KOTF OOC Thread

[Vladimir]

I read them and a rewrite would help. Those are the rules I'm going to base my actions on.

[Zim]

Tristan and Rowan are right. The build queue you set in the SOT thread is for the Seneschal, it's not something you queue up in your settlement in-game. He doesn't have to build something in any given settlement, but if he does he has to follow the build queue posted by the owner of the settlement (if there is one, otherwise he can pick any building). Control over where money goes is by far and away the strongest power the position has.

Prioritized units are a limited exception to the Seneschal's total powers over the country's purse strings, in that he would be required to fill such orders before getting to allocate any other money at all to buildings or other recruitment. There used to be a very small number of prioritized buildings at higher ranks as well in the previous game, but this power was little used (anyone is free to try to reinstate that on at a Council, though. Getting the votes to pass would convince me it's popular enough to make it back in).

I suppose those of us who have been in this for multiple games have just become used to the wording.

And to answer an earlier question, refusing to allocate any money to a player's build queue is one way a Seneschal could "encourage" someone to permit the building of that trading port or market rather than those ballista towers or whatever other military building they want.

[Vladimir]

Reviewing the status and orders thread confirms my fears. We have settlements building a grain exchange first and roads fourth or even eighth! Trade moves along roads in this game. The purpose of settlements is to produce income for the faction. We'll have a new Senechal before we even have roads, not to mention markets and sea trade.

Is this how it worked in previous games? How was the faction funded?

France is woefully underdeveloped in this game.

[Ramses II CP]

Reviewing the status and orders thread confirms my fears. We have settlements building a grain exchange first and roads fourth or even eighth! Trade moves along roads in this game. The purpose of settlements is to produce income for the faction. We'll have a new Senechal before we even have roads, not to mention markets and sea trade.

Is this how it worked in previous games? How was the faction funded?

France is woefully underdeveloped in this game.

The King's edict has to be kept in mind as well; it requires structures to be built before recruitment takes place. That's why I left my build order as it is, I wanted to free AG's hand to put things in the correct order within the structure of the King's edict. I hope that's clear in the way I wrote it out.

In previous games if the Seneschal didn't like your build order he didn't build anything. If people get too annoyed about it they can try to introduce an Edict to force the settlement owner's hand, but the realistic truth is that we don't have one hand guiding our nation, we have many. That makes for a disorganized game of MTWII, but a very interesting game of politics and negotiation.

[Zim]

My guess? A combination of Econ's revelation that not having a grain exchange can cause negative traits for governors and the first part of Edict 1.1 (which won with 100% of the vote, including yours. ).

Edict 1.1: No recruitment of any kind will be allowed in towns or castles that do not have at least a small church or chapel and either farms (OOC : lvl 1) or a grain exchange.

Do first level roads affect trade? They never show a projected increase in trade when I queue them. and in LTC ports don't produce trade until the second tier (I found that one out recently on the LTC forum).

Unless we're already showing a large deficit for turn two I wouldn't worry. Money has tended not to be a problem in these games, and after the first couple terms we always seem to be stinking rich. At the end of last game while I had the Seneschal equivalent position I even purposefully ran our economy into the ground with a huge debt to help support a rebellion, and we could have come out of it within a few turns.

I also suspect if our economy showed any weakness many of the players who were pushing for slower expansion would suddenly be in favor of war against England or some other neighbor...

[Vladimir]

While I've always been stinking rich in LTC it's always been a result of having control of an entire faction and a fiscal growth policy. I do so love playing Venice. France is another story. My heart fell a little when I realized how poorly developed it is.

[econ21]

Reviewing the status and orders thread confirms my fears. We have settlements building a grain exchange first and roads fourth or even eighth! Trade moves along roads in this game. The purpose of settlements is to produce income for the faction. We'll have a new Senechal before we even have roads, not to mention markets and sea trade.

...

France is woefully underdeveloped in this game.

I know you may have rules queries, but this kind of concern is exactly the sort of thing that we should debate in character rather than out of character. Take it up in Council and/or with your Duke etc. The more genuine political debate we can generate the better. We're often trying to manufacture conflicts, but if you think something really hurts the kingdom, raise a stink over it.

[Vladimir]

OK. My impression was that the initial game rules were an OOC thing and that no more edicts can be proposed until the next council session. My IC concerns will develop over the next couple turns and are influenced by my character's fiscal traits.

[AussieGiant]

Yes I'd be more than happy to have someone challenge the position in character.

Then you can really get a feel for the obvious, and not so obvious leverage options available in the game.

[Ramses II CP]

My guess? A combination of Econ's revelation that not having a grain exchange can cause negative traits for governors and the first part of Edict 1.1 (which won with 100% of the vote, including yours. ).

Edict 1.1: No recruitment of any kind will be allowed in towns or castles that do not have at least a small church or chapel and either farms (OOC : lvl 1) or a grain exchange.

Do first level roads affect trade? They never show a projected increase in trade when I queue them. and in LTC ports don't produce trade until the second tier (I found that one out recently on the LTC forum).

Unless we're already showing a large deficit for turn two I wouldn't worry. Money has tended not to be a problem in these games, and after the first couple terms we always seem to be stinking rich. At the end of last game while I had the Seneschal equivalent position I even purposefully ran our economy into the ground with a huge debt to help support a rebellion, and we could have come out of it within a few turns.

I also suspect if our economy showed any weakness many of the players who were pushing for slower expansion would suddenly be in favor of war against England or some other neighbor...

Roads, FYI, make a huge difference in trade income. They do more in Broken Crescent, but it's a lot in vanilla and I presume in LTC as well. Those prediction screens are unreliable in the extreme.

[Ramses II CP]

BTW crackin' good story between YLC and Tristan to explain IC what could've been left an OOC slip-up. I'm really fond of the way we're kicking things off here.

[Ignoramus]

Did YLC redo his move? Because if so, I would consider that not in the spirit of the game.

[Ramses II CP]

No, he merely lifted the siege while still sitting next to the city.

[Cecil XIX]

It's funny, that button is only useful when you want to lift a siege without moving your army. When does that situation pop up?

[Zim]

In this case I guess, since he'd have to wait until next turn to end the siege afterwards.

Maybe if you don't mind waiting forever to starve a settlement out, you can lift the siege when you get to the last turn before they would sally, then resiege the same turn to begin the countdown again.

Maybe someone can come up with other situations?

[Ramses II CP]

Actually you can move on subsequent turns when you lift a siege. There have been no few times when I put a siege in place just to stop the AI recruiting while I moved in enough spies, then lifted it the next turn to use spies to open the gates. Makes for a lot fewer casualties than going forward with ladders and rams.

[AussieGiant]

Can any French speakers give me the names for "The Office of the Exchequer" and "The War Office"?

That would be great.

I also need a file sharing site. Mizus seems to be a bit different from the last time I was there.

[_Tristan_]

The Office of the Exchequer would be "Le Trésor Royal" and the "War Office" would be "le Ministère de la Guerre"

[AussieGiant]

Thanks Tristan.

[Ramses II CP]

I use mediafire for filesharing:

http://www.mediafire.com/

Rapidshare is also good, but they have a waiting period for free users that (IMHO) is just a bit more annoying than the ads at MF.

http://www.rapidshare.com/

[AussieGiant]

I want to use the one off this board.

How the hell can I get the link for it? It's up by it's the most ridiculous uploader I've ever come across.

Can someone please help.

[_Tristan_]

Follow this link

Click add entry

Enter the name of your savegame

Go to the section below and browse the file on your computer (.zip or .rar it first) then click submit.

Only thing you have to do then is copy the link from your uploaded file here.

[AussieGiant]

Got it Tristan thanks.

Save is up. It a little difficult doing this the first time after a year.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Ok back for good, and taking the save in a bit to see things out.

[OverKnight]

Zim, when you have a spare moment, could you start a battle reports thread?

[AussieGiant]

I'm going to take the save back and finish season 2, any issues with this?

[Ramses II CP]

Rock on.

[AussieGiant]

Sorry fellas, Cecil just noticed an unintentional rule violation by me regarding troop transport via ships. i've PM'ed Zim for a ruling as the save is too far gone in many ways.

Sorry for the delay. As soon as I have a response from Zim we will get back to normal playing.

[Zim]

Hey everyone,
This week may be very busy at work, with some possible 15 hour days. I also have my birthday near the end of it, which my wife insists we celebrate.

I may not be around quite as much after tomorrow, although I'll try. I will be able to fulfill some requests that have already been made, so no worries if you've pmed me recently. Newer stuff might be harder. If I miss something major TheFlax can take care of any rules disputes, and hopefully Econ21 might be so kind as to do any important console work.

Honestly, since the game is already started, I'm thinking it should be a smooth week, though.

[Ignoramus]

You're doing a great job Zim!

I'm pleased to see my character developing along the lines I intend for him. And right after that story too.