KOTF OOC Thread

[OverKnight]

Hugues and his army were in the battle as reinforcements. I initiated the attack from Staufen to have the castle as the battle site.

If this is a problem, I can fall back to the last save.

Edit: I fought in a similar fashion relieving Adana in KotR.

[Ignoramus]

Mea culpa. I just saw the screenshot of the battle results in the Seneschal's thread, and it only list the Captain, not Hugues.

[_Tristan_]

There's still a problem with that battle but we can keep it all IC : OK initiate the battle with units from Staufen which belongs to the King's demesne and Philippe's SOT proscribes such usage of his units ("do not move").

But as I said all this can be solved IC... I see no true rules violation here, only a non-respect of Philippe's SOT

[OverKnight]

@ Igno: No worries, this is a grey area. If I wasn't facing horrible odds, I probably wouldn't have done it.

Edit:

There's still a problem with that battle but we can keep it all IC : OK initiate the battle with units from Staufen which belongs to the King's demesne and Philippe's SOT proscribes such usage of his units ("do not move").

But as I said all this can be solved IC... I see no true rules violation here, only a non-respect of Philippe's SOT

Ummm, they were going to die anyway? I hadn't even thought of that.

Bad vassal, no biscuit.

[Zim]

Staufen hasn't been the object of any edicts for conquest, has it? So while it awaits ratification any troops in it would belong to Hugues.

[OverKnight]

Unfortunately, having reviewed the rules, if this is true, there's not supposed to be any recruitment at an "unsanctioned" settlement before its ratification. The peasant archers of the garrison were recruited at Staufen.

So, either I've violated Tristan's SoT post, or I used an illegally recruited unit in the battle. I asked AG IC to recruit the unit so Staufen wouldn't be steam rolled and to slow the Germans. So if it hadn't been recruited, and the rule followed, Staufen would have fallen on the previous AI turn.

My brain hurts.


Edit:
The relevant passage:

(b). - Gaining and Losing Provinces: All conquered provinces must be ratified by an edict, which can be passed at the session before the conquest or be applied retroactively at the first session after. If a province is not ratified in this manner by the end of the very next session after it was made, it must be given away or abandoned. While a province is not ratified taxes must be set to the highest level possible and no recruitment can be made in that settlement. Any province conquered and ratified becomes part of the King's Demesne. At the time of conquest, the conquering noble can refuse to hand the province over to the King, but this puts him in a state of Civil War with the King. The King can be prevented from giving any province in the Demesne to another Noble by a two-thirds majority vote of the Council.

[_Tristan_]

OK, from my point of view, you're right in saying that the unit has been illegally recruited, though Staufen belongs to you.

So in fact Staufen should have fallen... This can still be corrected if we go back to the previous save and if we provoke a sally which results in a defeat...

I'll take Staufen out of my SOT...

[OverKnight]

So Staufen belongs to me, but it fell a turn ago?

Yay?

Let's see what Zim has to say. For now I've put spoiler tags around my Conseil comment after the battle since it may not have happened.

[AussieGiant]

I certainly realised that Staufen should not have had any troops recruited in it.

Ramses, called me on it and I said he can take it IC and we could thrash it out. I have a pretty good IC case to present. Subsequently that is as far as it went.

Now, having one of us play a battle where a non-avatar was leading, seems like bending our rule set to allow us to yet again thrash the AI.

I don't agree with that.

The last thing we need right now is to begin "greying" up things which then allow us to exploit our ability to reach incredible results on the battle field.

I mean it's about 20 to 1 casualty rates to date, which is why I'm also a little dubious with Tristan explaining how he charges head on into set spear units and wins causing total destruction.

I didn't make any further comment before after making my initial comment, but, are we trying to make this difficult for ourselves or not?

Because our actions seem inconsistent if we are in fact trying to make it difficult for ourselves. Of course it needs to be determined IF that is our aim.

If Tristan has the ability to use the "pause" button to effect this tactic so precisely, then my question would be.

If you were not to use the "pause" button, would you still engage in this tactic?

This is a moral debate and it's in good faith from me to simply ask questions which relate to what we are "about" in this game.

Are we power gaming? Are we getting too competitive amongst ourselves, are we trying to give the AI a fighting chance? Because if the AI presents absolutely no threat, at all, we might have some long term issues.

It goes towards playing ahead with the save as well. Are we doing this?

So, this should be interesting.

[OverKnight]

Yurgh. . .good points.

Well, let's revert to the last save then. I'm not going to argue since it turns out I'm on dubious ground to begin with.

I apologize for the inconvenience and for holding up the game.

AG, when you take the real save, could you move Hugues to the Moselle ford, the one south of Metz?

Edit: Zim still has the save, FYI.

[_Tristan_]

To refer to my use of the "pause" button, I use it somply because I'm no computer... I cannot compute in real time and click and I'm not the only one that is using the option seeing some of the screenshots in the battle reports thread...

Factionheir got lots of credit for his use of cavalry without anyone questioning how he achieved such outstanding results, so I find these "accusations" (for lack of a better word) a bit bitter to swallow...

Though some may argue it is just a question of "when" rather than "how"...

And about difficulty, the exact reason why I'm fighting the way I do is to do just that : give myself some challenge that I would not have with a full stack under my command... It is only my avatar I'm putting at risk there, or mostly...

And I think I've done everything I could to up the difficulty by slowing recruitment (Edict 1.1) or declaring war at the worst of times against one of te most powerful factions of the game...