KOTF OOC Thread

**Cultured Drizzt fan** · 09-03-2009, 20:14

I don't have much to add..... I am fine with whatever happens. I was kind of amazed at some of the things people have been pulling off. I have always been far to timid when it came to bodyguards I guess.....

**Ituralde** · 09-03-2009, 21:59

I withhold my judgement until I've fought a battle myself. I'm always afraid of loosing my general. While most of us are very capable of handling even weakened bodyguards we don't want it to turn into frustration for those of us who aren't as uber.

**econ21** · 09-03-2009, 22:43

This was the screenshot that got me thinking about nerfing bodyguards:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Even though Tristan was outnumbered nearly 10:1, the computer thought the battle was even (1:1) because bodyguards are just so formiddable.

Originally Posted by Ibn

That hitpoint thing is a bit over rated.
Those default 2 hit points are not that important actually. Generals do die quite often as we saw in LotR. I myself lost an avatar when I tried to pull off Methodios
More important are those traits and ancillaries that give extra hitpoints.

I don't think the general's hitpoints have a big impact on their unit's combat effectiveness (unless things have gone really bad

) or their BGs hitpoints have a big impact on their general's survivability. But I am sure the BGs hitpoints have a big impact on their unit's combat effectiveness. I suspect it is why you can charge into spears frontally and walk away almost unscathed - you probably are taking some hits in return, but they are just reducing the 2 HPs to 1 HP.

I can only speak from personal experience, but in most solo campaigns, I have become very cautious in my use of regular (1 HP) heavy cavalry. Yes, it can deal damage. But they also take damage that I find rather painful - I hate to see my elite horsies die. With 2 HP regenerating BGs, you can be more robust. But occasionally, it does bite you in the rear and you lose the main man.

I just talking here - I am ambivalent about changing the stats partway into the game. And nerfing BGs would do nothing to stop the mounted sergeants walking over DFKs that AG and Cecil found depressing. Let's play on and see how it goes when the circle of players fighting battles widens.

**_Tristan_** · 09-03-2009, 23:01

Yes, let us remember that I'm the exception and not the rule... Otherwise, my "prowess" would not be so awe-inspiring...

So should we make a rule to take into account an exception ? Most people seem wary of using their BGs the way I do, a fact I can understand but I've played like this for a long time now... Even with Hugo, in KotR, though with Fritz and Erhart to compete with, it wasn't as noticeable...

It's my way of crating a challenge for me, however small it may be, but at least I have the feeling that my avatar is living on the line... Something that helps me getting into the game...

Do we want to see our Generals die in droves ? For die they will, give them time... Or do we want to see our BGs units become useless or in the same category of lighter cavalry ? I don't think it's a solution...

Let's remember that this game is based on the avatars we're playing... I prefer to see them as heroes of the battlefield (if a bit over the top) than simple grunts, achieving little to die small deaths at the hands of peasants...

Just my

**Ramses II CP** · 09-03-2009, 23:23

Truthfully I would like it if we had a R-P-S style counter for our BGs in the AI armies; something the AI could use to force us to bring at least some real troops to a battle. English longbowmen stakes would be perfect... if the AI knew how to use them, because we could counter them, but they create a situation where a charge *cannot* be safely made. Period.

Pikemen could be a similar counter if they worked right and the AI knew how to use them.

Here's what I'd do if I were buffing AI armies: Forget DFKs and assorted infantry of all stripes. Put in high end crossbowmen, archers, a few spearmen, and top off with ample fast cavalry/HA. The kinds of troops that can be countered, but that will cost us casualties even under the best circumstances. Catapults maybe? If the AI would use them to shoot and not hang them out to dry they could force us to engage on unfavorable terms at least.

I dunno, I consider the tactical AI to be rather hopeless. Give them the best of everything and they'll find a way to muck it up. HA is the only surefire way to create mass player casualties, and it's a rather cheap tactic at that.

**ULC** · 09-03-2009, 23:42

Err...there is a way to fix rampant cavalry abuse, without needing to nerf anything - however, it would require greater tactical use of cavalry.

The solution I find is to simply give everything a base cavalry defense of 4-6, give spearmen double that, and give pikemen triple. Thus, when braced, cavalry won't plow through a single unit and decimate it utterly (but still inflict substantial casualties), and spear and pike units can hold steadfast - so long as they stay in formation - and usually rebuke the enemy cavalry.

Thus -

Standard Infantry - +6
Spearmen - +12
Pikemen - +18

Remember, these bonuses will only take effect if the unit is braced, meaning pulling the enemy out and then charging them will be the proper tactic, instead of just plowing through them like a medieval bulldozer on roids.

**econ21** · 09-04-2009, 01:18

I just had a go as Hermant with a BG against a few spears. It was too small an encounter to draw many conclusions, but I am starting to agree with Cecil and Ramses about the AI. It was very sluggish even in re-orienting itself to face me - which was weird, as with only one of my units on the field, I would have thought facing was obvious. The AI only seemed to sharpen up when just one unit was left - it went into schiltron, which surprised me but proved disappointingly ineffective against a charge. The morale of the armored spears held up surprisingly well up - even with a dead leader etc. I did not micro the withdrawals, but did re-charge and suffered some loses.

I still find it odd to see our King and Prince riding around a war zone with nought but a few mounted sergeants, but I guess that's their (royal) perogative.

**Ramses II CP** · 09-05-2009, 16:32

I have a fair bit of writing to catch up on. I'm hoping to get the Marseille battle up today, and at least make a start on the Gaetan explanation. The Council session will hopefully give me some time to get it all in place and making sense.

There *is* an explanation for Gaetan popping up at Marseille and it'll all come together soon. I hope.

**Cecil XIX** · 09-05-2009, 17:40

I noticed Mandorf is now Kaiser... Glad it's one of the original six.

**OverKnight** · 09-05-2009, 17:50

Freaky, I'm sure this adds further insult to injury for GH considering the. . .spirited relationship Max and Heinrich had in KotR.

Mandorf must have been adopted by Henry and became heir when the Prince died.

Fingers crossed on Kaiser Otto.