KOTF OOC Thread

[AussieGiant]

Alright lets not go all ape over this. (Deliberate exaggeration to draw everyone’s attention)

The public ballot is fine as there are a myriad of benefits practically and for the game. Secret ballots are all well and good but open voting in the chambers is what real democracies do so for me the benefits definitely outweigh the potential advantages, which are arguable at best.

As for swapping votes, then we do seem to have hit a snag but retrospective legislation is an appalling concept, so lets just tighten things up at the next vote.

The issue that could be addressed is "changing your vote". Personally, as we have a GM and he has that title for a reason, then perhaps we can leave it then?

*Here's a GM ruling that in future might have an impact.

"Request for vote change denied. Your vote is annulled for this session. Thanks for taking note."

[Zim]

Alright, I had been trying to contact someone to get some input but I think I've been dragging this too long.

Changing a vote because of accidentally clicking on the wrong choice is fine. I think I've done it at least once in LOTR. Changing it after realizing your vote might not be in line with your House leader is a bit grayer of an area and I'm going to draw the line against it. I don't see where changed votes for other reasons than a misclick was allowed in past games and wouldn't want to set a precedent for allowing it.

I understand the difficulty of lacking instructions from the House leader (those who remember KOTR know I was in a Von Salza run Swabia) and of worrying about their not returning before the voting deadline. Sometimes you just have to take a chance and just vote where you think your or your House's interests lie. If it turns out to be too early there's always next election.

We'll have a quick re-vote as per the rules. I eliminated the abstain option since I won't need to use this vote to measure activity.

[deguerra]

those who remember KOTR know I was in a Von Salza run Swabia

Ah you take me back. Though frankly I'm surprised you ever got to vote, given how quickly you were killing off your characters

[Zim]

My characters did tend to die charging the flanks of weakened units they should easily have mowed down...

Andreas lasted a while I thought, most of my time in KOTR.

[econ21]

We'll have a quick re-vote as per the rules.

Good decision - fancy a job as UN Special Envoy to Kabul?

[TinCow]

Just dropping in to say hello. Tomorrow is the last full day of my vacation (spending it in Oxford, with dinner at a place I've been dreaming of going to for several years) and I'll be flying back to the States on Friday. I will try and get caught up after I've come back, though I'm also going to be gone the following Saturday and Sunday to attend a wedding in NYC. October 1 also starts the beginning of a new production year for me at work, which essentially means that I won't be as busy at work for a while afterwards. So, I very much expect my activity level to pick up significantly starting at the beginning of October.

[KnightnDay]

So Hugues leads the Seneschal race 13-5. Is that now considered insurmountable?

[Zim]

Good enough for me. The new Seneschal can take the save to look at and open whenever he's ready.

[AussieGiant]

Just dropping in to say hello. Tomorrow is the last full day of my vacation (spending it in Oxford, with dinner at a place I've been dreaming of going to for several years) and I'll be flying back to the States on Friday. I will try and get caught up after I've come back, though I'm also going to be gone the following Saturday and Sunday to attend a wedding in NYC. October 1 also starts the beginning of a new production year for me at work, which essentially means that I won't be as busy at work for a while afterwards. So, I very much expect my activity level to pick up significantly starting at the beginning of October.

Good god, that restaurant is off the charts TC!! I'll be interested to know what you think.

You haven't missed much...NOT!!

Power struggles galore, politiking like mad and we were very close to going banana's in the Council.

I'm speaking for myself of course.

[OverKnight]

Well a quick start to my term. I'm puttering around, hit end turn and wham! a ford battle.

Anyone have an over/under on when the first critique rolls in?

Since a lot of coordination and updating needs to be done, I'm leaning towards extending the save window.

Thoughts?

Edit: Just FYI, but I didn't make any changes to the game before hitting end turn. I wanted to get that spy out of Dublin, but I figured that my term didn't begin until 1096, so I didn't.

[AussieGiant]

How long did it take you to do all that OK?

Looks great to me. You are certainly giving more of a "situational" report than I ever did.

Nice stuff. We seem to have a nice amount of cash...

[OverKnight]

4 hours, give or take. Fortunately it's my day off.

First turn of a term usually takes the longest because you have to take stock of the situation and formulate a plan. This turn will take a while for me as well, because I'll be reviewing the SOT and Edicts, implementing recruitment and builds and juggling a lot of correspondence.

[Ituralde]

4 hours, give or take. Fortunately it's my day off.

First turn of a term usually takes the longest because you have to take stock of the situation and formulate a plan. This turn will take a while for me as well, because I'll be reviewing the SOT and Edicts, implementing recruitment and builds and juggling a lot of correspondence.

Ah.. the fun of being the Chancell.. ew.. Megas Logo.. Seneshal, Seneshal I mean!

[AussieGiant]

4 hours, give or take. Fortunately it's my day off.

First turn of a term usually takes the longest because you have to take stock of the situation and formulate a plan. This turn will take a while for me as well, because I'll be reviewing the SOT and Edicts, implementing recruitment and builds and juggling a lot of correspondence.

Thank god you said that. I feel a bit better.

After I got into the rythm it went down to about 2 hours or so.

[_Tristan_]

How do we deal with the fact that the army in Frankfurt was the King's one but should now belong to whoever has been granted that settlement ?

[Ituralde]

In Character.

I can't remember how we handled it in the other games but there never was a provision for retaining ownership of armies once you enter the city/caste of another noble. Since you are helping in the defense of the city though there should be little problem. If I remember it most SoTs would only state that a certain amount of units had to be kept as minimum garrison. So no problem there. If someone's SoT specifically stated that no units may leave. Well, you didn't enter the city in the first place then. And if he needed help defending the city he'd better change his SoT first.

Hope that answers any questions you have about it.

Edit: So in essence I'm saying that the King's army could now belong to the new owner of Frankfurt. If he wants it he can have it. Of course the King could be very unhappy about that.

[_Tristan_]

Yes but the city was in the King's demesne at the time of the army going in, and was granted only afterwards, so any opinions ?

[KnightnDay]

I don't think it's practical to figure out troop ownership based on when troops went in and out and when city posession changed. They could hang around indefinitely and since in the meantime new troops can be raised and we can't tag ownership, etc, should belong to the city owner. That said, Frankfurt is mine now, and IC Thomas would not lay claim to any troops fighting with the kings avatar.

I will update my SOT appropriately so there is no restrction of their use.

[Ituralde]

Yes but the city was in the King's demesne at the time of the army going in, and was granted only afterwards, so any opinions ?

I'd say in future you sould watch out who you gift provinces to. If you are afraid that the new owner won't let your army out again, I am sure you can make arrangements beforehand. Or better yet not give the province at all.

So my oppinion would be that for the sake of easy OOC rules the OOC rules would always be on the side of the province owner. So even if you made an arrangement he can never be forced OOC to do as he promised. The whole thing would turn into an IC matter. Why give land to people you don't trust? And if they seem trustworthy and then backstab you. Well, all the more interesting if you ask me.

I know that these kind of questions have always been raised in regards to Army ownership. Through roleplay it would often be obvious that certain troops are loyal to their King, Duke, or whatever and would not react kindly to their leader being disposed. In order to have clear OOC rules though it's very difficult to implement these kind of things without making it overly complicated.

So I'd stick with the rules we have and figure the rest out IC. I am sure many things can be arranged OOC with both sides (e.g. the two players involved agreeing that some 'veteran' troops will refuse to be taken over in this matter). After all we're playing this together OOC even if we fight each other IC.

[AussieGiant]

The rules are set, interpret them anyway you wish. Just beware of the consequences. There is no reference to "timing" in the ownership rules, therefore the situation in-game is what needs to be looked at.

Based on that let IC solutions and negotiations resolve the issue.

[Cecil XIX]

Heads up guys, I tried to play MII the other day and found that my installation was broken; files are missing. I'm on vacation for the rest of the week and don't have the CDs to reinstall it. As such it'll be a while before I can update the library, and I can't take the save until then either.

[OverKnight]

Yes but the city was in the King's demesne at the time of the army going in, and was granted only afterwards, so any opinions ?

Technically, Thomas might have had a claim. But it would have been insanely stupid to try to do so. It sounds like a solution has been reached.

[Ramses II CP]

Okay, I'm organizing my replies like marshalling troops! I have to get back to YLC and reply formally to OK's request in the Seneschal report. I'll be doing that tonight, promise!

I'll take the save later to do House movement too.

A very interesting election to be sure, especially given how support fell out for the legislation...

[OverKnight]

Heads up guys, I tried to play MII the other day and found that my installation was broken; files are missing. I'm on vacation for the rest of the week and don't have the CDs to reinstall it. As such it'll be a while before I can update the library, and I can't take the save until then either.

That's unfortunate.

Perhaps you could give permission to deguerra, as his avatar is in Dijon as well, to move troops or command battles as needed. I ask becasue the Germans might threaten the city again.

[deguerra]

sigh. make poor old deguerra do it.

that's certainly fine, Cecil. To be perfectly honest I haven't even fired up a single save yet, but I'll check that it works when I get home. In any case, getting it to work shouldn't be an issue.

[OverKnight]

Each time I read "Dijon needs men" I can't help thinking, "Mars needs women".

I should probably seek help.

[Ituralde]

Nice move there, OK!

Just yesterday I was thinking about the fact that more and more discussion has moved into PMs. Good to see some of it in the Council again.

[_Tristan_]

Wouldn't it be time for Loup de Gisors (Beskar) and Pierre de St Germain (everyone) to take a great big gulp of Channel water ?

[AussieGiant]

I agree with Tristan. There are still a number of RBG's hanging around that need to be removed immediately.

[econ21]

Yes, we've had two election polls, so it is time for the first cull. I guess the Lemongate avatar should also go, if he has told Zim he hasn't enough time to play. This purge, plus Gaetan's departure from the Company, is going to thin the Order considerably. We need some fresh blood - Braden is your Prince going lightside or darkside?