Pentagon urges a tobacco free military

[Strike For The South]

If you're nervous about a gay man next to you, should you be allowed to carry a gun? He's gay not a rapist.

I shouldn't work with women becuase I like b00bz.

[Strike For The South]

If so, he's a complete idiot. And complete idiots do not deserve sympathy, nor do they belong near guns. They should be made to complete the first grade instead.

Honestly, the notion that gay men are "incapable of controlling their urges" is the dumbest idea on the planet. Face it, with the exception that they love the same sex, gay people are just that, people. Just like me and you, there is no difference.

I'm heterosexual. Does that mean I can't be around women for protracted periods of time without raping them...? Does it mean that I will be hitting on lesbians, trying to convert them to straight women?

Women are allowed in the army. Why aren't they afraid that their foxhole-buddy is going to rape them? Why isn't that a problem to you, Hooahguy? Following your logic, you should be supporting an all-female army, shouldn't you?

I just said this in ten words. Silly Yuropeean

[Hosakawa Tito]

i think the dont ask dont tell policy was good enough. i would imagine thats its very nerve-wracking when you know ur buddy in your foxhole is gay.

Well, not to veer too far off topic, but as long as he's brave & doing his job that'd be good enough for me. Or, as a homosexual in Attica once said to me, "Just because I'm gay doesn't mean I want to everybody's ."

[Hooahguy]

look, i never said that gays couldnt be in the military.

btw women arent allowed in combat. and women do feel scared because of rape. do you know how many women are raped in the military? a few years ago Time had an article on it. apparently lots are raped.

[CountArach]

look, i never said that gays couldnt be in the military.

Yes you did:

i think the dont ask dont tell policy was good enough. i would imagine thats its very nerve-wracking when you know ur buddy in your foxhole is gay.

If you support 'don't ask don't tell' you clearly think there is something wrong with openly gay people serving in the military.

[Hooahguy]

maybe you misunderstand me. or maybe i am misunderstanding the dont-ask-dont-tell policy.
im fine with someone being gay in the military. nothing wrong with being gay. i just dont feel a need for a gay soldier to tell everyone that he is gay. why would someone be openly gay in a society like that? so he can be a target for insults and other hateful behavior from people who are homophobic or bigoted in an atmosphere that capitalizes on closeness with your buddies.
being gay does not make anything better for someone in the military. so why make that person tell everyone he is gay?

[Lemur]

Soldiers who want to stick burning tobacco in their mouths should be allowed that pleasure. No sane argument against that, no matter what Jack Smith, head of the Pentagon's office of clinical and program policy has to say.

Soldiers who want to stick other things in their mouths should be allowed that pleasure as well. Men who voluntarily put their lives on the line for us should be allowed any darn thing they like (within law and reason) to blow off steam.

[Strike For The South]

maybe you misunderstand me. or maybe i am misunderstanding the dont-ask-dont-tell policy.
im fine with someone being gay in the military. nothing wrong with being gay. i just dont feel a need for a gay soldier to tell everyone that he is gay. why would someone be openly gay in a society like that? so he can be a target for insults and other hateful behavior from people who are homophobic or bigoted in an atmosphere that capitalizes on closeness with your buddies.
being gay does not make anything better for someone in the military. so why make that person tell everyone he is gay?

Why tell everyone you're Jewish? In a socitey that is overwhelmingly evangelical christians why make yourself a target for bitinig racism?

[HoreTore]

btw women arent allowed in combat. and women do feel scared because of rape. do you know how many women are raped in the military? a few years ago Time had an article on it. apparently lots are raped.

So....

The answer is to ban men from the army, right?

And women aren't allowed in combat....? what the is that? Either Hooahguy is completely wrong here, or the US army has some serious brain-issues...

[Hooahguy]

Why tell everyone you're Jewish? In a socitey that is overwhelmingly evangelical christians why make yourself a target for bitinig racism?

i dont tell everyone im jewish. the only reason why you guys know is that it happened to come up a while ago. seeing that most know now anyways, what the harm in putting it in my sig? they would only know because my dogtags would say.

And women aren't allowed in combat....? what the is that? Either Hooahguy is completely wrong here, or the US army has some serious brain-issues...

since when are women allowed in combat situations in the US army?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So....

The answer is to ban men from the army, right?

And women aren't allowed in combat....? what the is that? Either Hooahguy is completely wrong here, or the US army has some serious brain-issues...

Most Western militaries don't allow women in combat, there are a few notable exceptions.

[HoreTore]

Most Western militaries don't allow women in combat, there are a few notable exceptions.

Obviously we(Norway) are an exception then.

So what are the women supposed to do when they're under attack? Go to the kitchen and cook something...?

Hooahguy, the "don't ask don't tell"-policy isn't about people "telling everyone they're gay". The policy requires them to keep their personal lives away from everyone else. For example, they can forget having a boyfriend, as someone might see them together, and that's "telling". And don't tell me you can't understand why someone wants a relationship...

[Hooahguy]

Obviously we(Norway) are an exception then.

So what are the women supposed to do when they're under attack? Go to the kitchen and cook something...?

Hooahguy, the "don't ask don't tell"-policy isn't about people "telling everyone they're gay". The policy requires them to keep their personal lives away from everyone else. For example, they can forget having a boyfriend, as someone might see them together, and that's "telling". And don't tell me you can't understand why someone wants a relationship...

ooooo that makes sense then. well, now im against that policy. what a load of
thanks for clearing it up. i just thought that it meant "ok you can be gay and have a relationship and function as a gay person outside of the base or wherever you are stationed but dont tell anyone."

[Husar]

Women are allowed in the army. Why aren't they afraid that their foxhole-buddy is going to rape them?

Well, but they are, I posted a topic about it a while ago, I think men should not be allowed in the army, their comrades in the foxholes might get scared. Can you imagine the emotional stress of having to share a foxhole with a man?!

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'm as guilty as anyone for rising to the bait here, but I suggest we might do well to return to the original topic.

Thank you kindly

[Ja'chyra]

The issue isn't gay rights, the issue is unit cohesion. At the very least, gays shouldn't be allowed in Combat units, for the same reason women aren't--it'll sow discord and hurt morale. Not to mention the gay person's life would be at serious risk. It's not pretty, but it's the truth--and the Army recognizes this.

Back on topic, it still seems like this is more of a scare than anything else. I really don't think the smoke-free-army dealio is going to go through.

Yep, those greeks never got anywhere because of all the man love.

[Devastatin Dave]

Just curious, how many of you attacking hoahguy have actually, voluntarily, served in the military?

[CountArach]

The issue isn't gay rights, the issue is unit cohesion. At the very least, gays shouldn't be allowed in Combat units, for the same reason women aren't--it'll sow discord and hurt morale. Not to mention the gay person's life would be at serious risk. It's not pretty, but it's the truth--and the Army recognizes this.

They said the same thing about Blacks.

[CountArach]

Look, this isn't a civil rights issue.

That's funny, because it sure seems like one to me.

Ever been in the Army? Ever even been through an Army barracks and talked to the soldiers? The vast majority are not exactly enlightened people. An openly gay infantryman would be dead in a week.

By that logic they should be dead now anyway. If there is as much hatred towards gays as there allegedly is now then surely they should be getting lynched in the streets/murdered all the time?

Now, you can either force it, and destroy countless units, or you can just keep gays out of the front line.

The unit will adapt. Again, it did when Blacks were able to serve with regular units.

I also think the whole "Gays are at risk, let's not put them in combat roles" to be incredibly patronising towards gays. I'm sure any Gay who is willing to serve openly would be well aware of the risk from his own side.

[rotorgun]

I could care less if the guy or gal next to me in a foxhole is gay or lesbian, as long as they are doing their job, and I don't have to tote their load as well as mine. (Unless I am having nicotine withdrawals, or it's before 9 AM and I haven't had my coffee yet!)

I think the Military needs to rethink it's outdated 18th century mindset, and get with reality. Just don't micromanage everything in the process, and that's exactly what this is. Some egg-headed, over college educated, analistic, kissin' politician's back pocket idea. It's bad enough that we have to do their dirty work in Iraq and Afghanistan. Now they want to tells us how we must conform to the ideal image of the "healthy" American, when people such as they act in such a way as to make a Mafia Don look like a choirboy.

Whew...got that rant off my chest!

PS: Thanks Gelatinous Cube for doing your bit with us. I'm sorry to hear you were injured. If there is any way I can help, please PM me. Praying for you Bro! You also have a point there about Infantry units that I hadn't considered. You may be right.

[rotorgun]

Here him! Here him! He's right, we should discuss this in another thread. It's just that this kind of topic always opens up so many cans of worms. I do agree, on second thought, having served in line infantry outfits in my former glory days before I became an aircraft maintenance FOBBIT.

Well...on to the anti-anti smoking agenda!

[HoreTore]

Just curious, how many of you attacking hoahguy have actually, voluntarily, served in the military?

*raises his hand*

@Gelatinous cube: gays aren't allowed in combat u8nits for the same reason women aren't allowed? Well... Women are allowed in every unit here, and that works wonderfully. In fact, the army here is pushing to get even more women in the army....

But hey, prejudice is fun too.

[Husar]

I could care less if the guy or gal next to me in a foxhole is gay or lesbian, as long as they are doing their job, and I don't have to tote their load as well as mine. (Unless I am having nicotine withdrawals, or it's before 9 AM and I haven't had my coffee yet!)

There is your proof!

Ban nicotine and coffee and guys like rotorgun will even carry their comrades' stuff around!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[rotorgun]

There is your proof!

Ban nicotine and coffee and guys like rotorgun will even carry their comrades' stuff around!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

LOL! Not if their rucksacks are as full of horse manure as you are Husar, you old...kopf! You are my favorite German, did you know that?

[Centurion1]

I thought smoking wasn't allowed on duty. For instance when my dad was an s-3 pilot back in well from 70's to the 90's and they smoked as soon as they were out of the plane. My father would never have smoked if he hadn't joined the military.

Now that's fine because it is his choice and i cant imagine going through OCS or Flight School or Basic without some sort of stress reliever. Everyone back then smoked.

The brass is retarded if they think that by removing smoking they get rid of nicotine. My cousin was a ringer (went to west point), and they all CHEW . He said the only reason he got through ranger school was because of chaw. And the stress it relieved in Afghanistan was a life-saver according to him. I dont care what they do but what they are trying to do is revoke soldiers rights and do you really want to piss off the folks defending you....

[Lemur]

You guys do know this is a dead issue, right?

Pentagon won't ban war-zone smoking, despite study

WASHINGTON – Smoke 'em if you got 'em. The Pentagon reassured troops Wednesday that it won't ban tobacco products in war zones. Defense officials hadn't actually planned to eliminate smoking — at least for now. But fear of a ban arose among some troops after the Defense Department received a study recommending the military move toward becoming tobacco-free — perhaps in about 20 years.

Press secretary Geoff Morrell pointedly told a Pentagon news conference that Defense Secretary Robert Gates is not planning to prohibit the use of cigarettes, chewing tobacco or other tobacco products by troops in combat.

"He knows that the situation they are confronting is stressful enough as it is," Morrell said, noting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. "I don't think he is interested in adding to the stress levels by taking away one of the few outlets they may have to relieve stress."

[drone]

I thought smoking wasn't allowed on duty. For instance when my dad was an s-3 pilot back in well from 70's to the 90's and they smoked as soon as they were out of the plane. My father would never have smoked if he hadn't joined the military.

Smoking would never be allowed on flights (at least in a crew cabin) due to the oxygen supply system.

Anyhoo, Gates has said that it will not ban smoking for the troops. Smart move, since the effects of nicotine withdrawal would probably increase the civilian casualty rate.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/15/us....ref=newssearch

Edit-> Gah! Beaten by the prosimian

[Centurion1]

Smoking would never be allowed on flights (at least in a crew cabin) due to the oxygen supply system.

no i understand that. but when he landed on the aircraft carrier and left his jet he lit up. i am saying that now it is contra to smoke while on duty in any capacity. I think so, it may just be the navy though. (vaguely remember hearing about a smoke-free navy)

Oh and lemur i know its dead but i thought it was still a good topic..... (its not dead in my heart)

[Centurion1]

Affirmative, But i believe what this new regulation was intending to do was ban smoking even when Soldiers were off duty, so on leave, at home with their families, etc.

[Centurion1]

Ugh, i hate UA tests, i have to take my DODMERB next week and they make you pee in front of the doctor to make sure you don't switch out the pee. I have trouble peeing in front of people........