Beating the Big Freeze (XBOX 360 maitenence)

[Monk]

Graphics freezes.

Aside from the dreaded Red Ring and the E73 error, the console freeze is perhaps the most dreaded thing an xbox owner can suffer through. There you are, making a push for an achievement or in a tense fire-fight and all of a sudden the screen freezes and the sound cuts out. You mash buttons, you wait, but no go. It's not coming back. Want to fix it? Restart your console and hope it doesn't happen again.

I had lived with this for about a year and a half and honestly I didn't know what caused it. There is quite a bit of misinformation on the net about the xbox, what causes the fail and how to fix it. This misinformation lead me to do a number of things, from buying a fan that clamps onto the back of the xbox to putting a stand-up fan, facing it, and blowing cool air at it. No amount of hokey religions or ancient remedies were a match for this gaudy piece of technology, however. Driven to my wits end as I watched freeze number 32,085 wreck my score in Gears of War 2's multiplayer, I decided this thing was going to be fixed whether it liked it or not.

But like i said, finding genuine information on the internet about this thing isn't as easy as it might seem. Though I eventually found a guide, which i won't link because it had links to some piraty activities. But if you want to get the general information for the fix I used then do a search on "X-clamp fix" and browse around for some how tos. "But Monk!" you say, "What in the name of <diety here> is an X-clamp"? Well. I'm glad you asked. IMHO the xclamp is the reason the xbox fails.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(Image isn't mine. I would show you the clamps i ripped out of my machine but I can't find the USB connector for my phone atm)

These, are the x-clamps. These clamps hook into 8 screws that hold the heatsinks above the CPU and GPU. Apparently they aren't doing a very good job because from what I can see both chips are still getting way too hot. I'm just an IT student and I get my kicked trying to get an A+ certification, but I've had my head inside multiple desktops, server nodes, routers, laptops, what have you in the last 9 months and I've never seen anything like this. Why not just use a normal machine screw? I mean, is there some reason to use such a gimmicky piece of metal to secure the heatsinks? What were they thinking?

Not only do they not hold the heatsinks very securely to the chips but these suckers heat up. So you've got a pocket of heat beneath the motherboard and another ontop of it in the form of the heatsinks. In a perfect world the fan would move the heat out of the sinks and keep the pocket of heat on top to a minimum. But oh right, the fan on the xbox is terrible that's why i bought the auxiliary one. That poor motherboard is just thinking "I'm a next-gen console, please, get me out of here."

Well I did get her out of there.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I ripped it apart, voiding my warrenty on a quest to fix this thing myself. Armed with a trusty guide (that i paid $25 USD for) and around $10 worth of supplies from both Radioshack and Home Depot I began my quest to best Microsoft's own design team..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Looking back I probably should have taken greater precautions with the components, it would have been just my luck to get the fix applied and then ruin it with some good ol' ESD. Though I worked as careful as I could, I replaced the clamps with something a little more orthodox: Machine screws. (With some washers to make a more solid hold, 'course) It took around 2 hours of labor but I got things fixed up nice and back in the box before dinner time, the next part was the hardest. Seeing if it paid off and making sure I didn't screw anything up.

Well - long story short it's been about two weeks since i had the box open (and voided my warranty) but I haven't suffered a single freeze yet. Considering it had gotten to the point where I could barely play an hour without a freeze I'd say mission accomplished. Also considering Microsoft quoted me a pricetag of $140 for them to fix it... All told I spent $50 dollars on this in my attempts to fix the console, if you count the extra fan I bought, and I am still $90 ahead of the estimate.

Despite everything i've been through with this thing I still love my 360 and wouldn't trade her in for anything. A feeling that is doubled after I had the thing ripped open in an attempt to put right that which once went wrong. It's not a love for the console, or the company, so much as it is an admiration for the library of games.

Let this be a warning to all who may be considering picking up the Xbox. Microsoft still hasn't instituted a fix on their own for the heat problem and very likely never will. (never is a bit extreme. They did make an attempt at solving the problem by extending the heatsink. Didn't work.) I've got the X-clamps hung up in my room as a trophy.

[drone]

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=329

Microsoft needs to hire some guys with laptop experience to design their next-gen console. Good job on your part, hopefully it solves your heat problems (and some other random part doesn't fail....)

[pevergreen]

Im disgusted. Both by how they designed this, and your lack of a static free work envrionment.

As an IT student, surely you would have taken precautions.

Wouldn't that have taught you, shorting out the mobo.

[Tratorix]

Alright, so lets say I've been having this problem with my 360. Are there any possible solutions beyond tearing it apart or buying a new one? It's becoming almost impossible to use it for any length of time.

[Monk]

http://www.koolance.com/water-coolin...product_id=329

Microsoft needs to hire some guys with laptop experience to design their next-gen console. Good job on your part, hopefully it solves your heat problems (and some other random part doesn't fail....)

Oh dear lord, What is that horrible abomination of science?! And.. look at the price on that. Does that come with an xbox or is that solely for the water cooler? If it's the later then someone is making a killing out there.

Im disgusted. Both by how they designed this, and your lack of a static free work envrionment.

As an IT student, surely you would have taken precautions.

Wouldn't that have taught you, shorting out the mobo.

I may be slightly knowledgeable but I am also horribly lazy. It took me a year and a half just to open it up. Kidding of course.

It was about halfway through when i realized I hadn't really taken much in the way of precautions, and by that time I had no choice but to move ahead. My professor would have a thing or two to say about that...

Alright, so lets say I've been having this problem with my 360. Are there any possible solutions beyond tearing it apart or buying a new one? It's becoming almost impossible to use it for any length of time.

There's a lot of crazy remedies around the net including (among other things) wrapping your xbox up in a damp towel to absorb the heat or just buying a fan to latch onto the back. Many of the crazy "quick fixes" like the towel fix won't help, and will probably make things even worse while the fan may or may not help at all.

Before ripping this thing open I installed an intercooler TS which i bought for pretty cheap off of amazon.

It's a unit that latches onto the back to adds 3 more fans. It increases air flow significantly but the main problem is this thing is loud. Worse yet it still didn't solve my freeze problem so i was forced to look elsewhere. If your warranty is still intact you can send it in the Microsoft to repair, but they seem rather fickle about that part of their customer service. I had heard they'd work on it for free and all it would cost me is the time, but after investigating this i learned they wanted a hefty sum for labor. Considering my options I just did it myself.

[Tratorix]

There's a lot of crazy remedies around the net including (among other things) wrapping your xbox up in a damp towel to absorb the heat or just buying a fan to latch onto the back. Many of the crazy "quick fixes" like the towel fix won't help, and will probably make things even worse while the fan may or may not help at all.

Before ripping this thing open I installed an intercooler TS which i bought for pretty cheap off of amazon.

It's a unit that latches onto the back to adds 3 more fans. It increases air flow significantly but the main problem is this thing is loud. Worse yet it still didn't solve my freeze problem so i was forced to look elsewhere. If your warranty is still intact you can send it in the Microsoft to repair, but they seem rather fickle about that part of their customer service. I had heard they'd work on it for free and all it would cost me is the time, but after investigating this i learned they wanted a hefty sum for labor. Considering my options I just did it myself.

Well, I'm not sure how my freeze problem could be heat related, since it usually shows up after five minutes. Looks like I might just have to send it into microsoft and pay like $100 to have them fix it. Why is the one game console I'm interested in owning so unreliable?

[Monk]

Well, I'm not sure how my freeze problem could be heat related, since it usually shows up after five minutes. Looks like I might just have to send it into microsoft and pay like $100 to have them fix it. Why is the one game console I'm interested in owning so unreliable?

You'd be surprised as to how quick the Xbox can overheat. Without fans installed (even the onboard ones) I forced it to overheat in under 40 seconds flat (yeah i timed it) and got 2 red lights. Do any of the LEDs on the front of the box turn red or do they stay green?



For those wondering my xbox works wonderfully now even after the hell i put it through. So far so good as they say.

[Tratorix]

All green, the screen just freezes and everything becomes unresponsive until I just shut it off.

[Monk]

All green, the screen just freezes and everything becomes unresponsive until I just shut it off.

Sounds really similar to the problem I was having only much worse since it happens far more frequently, from your description. I may have been where you are now had I not taken any action as it was happening after about 1-2 hours of use. From what I understand since the heatsinks aren't held close enough to the chips, the CPU/GPU are allowed to get far hotter than they should and start to vibrate which causes the freeze. Get them hotter and you'll get the Red Ring of Death (3 red LEDs) which means they've lost connection with the motherboard.

If you're not into tearing apart next-gen consoles I'd check the documentation that came with your xbox, see if your warranty is still good. Then give Microsoft a call and see if they'll fix it/how much it'll cost you and go from there.

[Tratorix]

Sounds really similar to the problem I was having only much worse since it happens far more frequently, from your description. I may have been where you are now had I not taken any action as it was happening after about 1-2 hours of use. From what I understand since the heatsinks aren't held close enough to the chips, the CPU/GPU are allowed to get far hotter than they should and start to vibrate which causes the freeze. Get them hotter and you'll get the Red Ring of Death (3 red LEDs) which means they've lost connection with the motherboard.

If you're not into tearing apart next-gen consoles I'd check the documentation that came with your xbox, see if your warranty is still good. Then give Microsoft a call and see if they'll fix it/how much it'll cost you and go from there.

My warrant has expired. But the RRoD is covered by an extended warranty on all consoles, for three years after purchase I believe. And you say if I leave it running, it might red ring. Interesting.

[Monk]

My warrant has expired. But the RRoD is covered by an extended warranty on all consoles, for three years after purchase I believe. And you say if I leave it running, it might red ring. Interesting.

Indeed, and the same fix that I applied can actually be used to fix a Red Ring'd system without changing a thing. I didn't try because I was too concentrated on fixing the darned thing, but it might be possible to push it into a RRoD.

[crazy conspiracy] It's all connected don'cha see!?! [/crazy conspiracy]

[drone]

Oh dear lord, What is that horrible abomination of science?! And.. look at the price on that. Does that come with an xbox or is that solely for the water cooler? If it's the later then someone is making a killing out there.

Just the cooler blocks/clamps for the CPU and GPU, tubing, thermal grease, coolant, and pump/radiator assembly. Dates back to right after the XBox 360 release, someone was annoyed by the fan noise as well as obvious heat issues and decided to go aquatic. Expensive, but efficient and quiet.

Hopefully, MS learns the lesson and doesn't skimp on the heat dissipation methodology with their next generation. They were selling for a loss already, the repair/replacement costs for the RRoD and other assorted issues must have really killed them.

[Sigurd]

I noticed this thread and remembered something from an ancient XboX360 vs PS3 thread.

This is a XboX360 mod you can do to get a better XBox360. The way to do it

[Monk]

I noticed this thread and remembered something from an ancient XboX360 vs PS3 thread.

This is a XboX360 mod you can do to get a better XBox360. The way to do it

Very interesting to be sure, but i'm surprised by how pricey it is (actually I'm not when I think about it). Amazon has them from $114 - $240 which is quite the dent in the wallet for me right now.

I might've gone that route had I; 1. known of it and 2. had $200 to spend on this particular problem, but that's really why I cracked this thing open in the first place. I didn't have that kind of cash to throw around.

edit: One month and zero freezes later, I dunno. I'm still riding pretty high on self-satisfaction.

[Monk]

Second month update:

Heat problems are still non-existent but I was starting to get random freezes. These freezes came in places like simply loading a game, switching to a new map or just using the guide button on the controller while in-game. At first I thought "Hm, maybe my hard work didnt last?" but that clearly wasn't the case. After one freeze in particular I had the peice of mind to feel both top and bottom of my console and it was cool to the touch. If not heat, then what?

A solution presented itself while I was, of all things, looking for some info on Mass Effect 2 over at the bioware forums. While browsing I stumbled upon a way to clear out the 360's hard drive cache. The post in question claimed it helped fix a horrible screen freeze problem. Color me intrigued, I thought.

Go to System Settings, and then Memory. Highlight your hard drive then hit Y, this will bring up device options. Then hit X, X, LB, RB, X, X.* A box should pop-up asking you if you want to perform maintenance on your hard drive, answer yes. Your cache will be flushed and you'll be ready to go. It won't take long and you won't lose any important data so fear not.

Strange thing? The freezes have, once more, disappeared altogether. I can't reproduce the freezes doing the thins tht caused them. Nor can.. well anything at all really. If you're having some freeze ups but heat isn't your problem, give this a try. Who knows it might help, though like all caches I suspect it'll need cleaned out periodically.

*Honestly how in the world is the average user supposed to figure this out? I wonder if it's in the documentation?

[lars573]

How much does M$ charge for labour? Due to not having time to get the repair order out the door my warrenty is now expired. Lacking a credit card I now can't get it fixed. My lil'bro does have one and thus could. Knowing how much it would cost.


Also you can clear the cache on boot up by pressing one of the letter buttons when XBOX appears.

[Fragony]

How much does M$ charge for labour?

It's free, service is excellent.

[Lemur]

A sobering statistic: Xbox 360 failure rate is 54.2%.

[A]ccording to their survey, in which over 5,000 console owners participated, the Xbox 360's current failure rate due to the Red Ring of Death, E74 or other hardware failure is 54.2 percent. They also calculated the relative death toll for PS3s due to the Yellow Light of Death (10.3 percent) and Wiis, due to ... well, we're not actually sure what color the Wii's light turns to upon its demise (6.8 percent). [...]

[The] 54.2 percent Xbox 360 failure rate sounds awfully low. Had the survey's participants been comprised entirely of Joystiq staffers, it would have been a bone-chilling 100 percent.

[Monk]

Freezes were at an all time low, I don't think I ever completely beat the freeze, but one lock-up every two or three weeks was something I could live with. And then... disaster.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The single red light, the dreaded E74 error indicating a general hardware failure. With a bit of troubleshooting i'd discovered the DVD-drive is the culprit, refusing to read certain disks out of my library (while others either have display issues or work just fine). After a bit of tinkering the red light disappeared as mysteriously as it had arrived. I've been unable to replicate it since then no matter what I do or what game i load up with, and all display errors are gone just the same.

Strange happenings to be sure.

[Centurion1]

Pure genius monk, thanks for the knowledge. While i probably will never attempt it it is good to know.

[Lemur]

The boys over at bit-tech have a nice overview of installing the 360 in Lian-Li's PC-XB01. Worth a gander.

[Monk]

The xbox has died this morning.

What a long strange journey it has been. I was so worried about CPU and GPU failing that I spent most of my maintenance time working on those, and lo and behold it was the DVD drive that would fail. It went from spotty stability to out right death yesterday. Looked into ordering a replacement but they seem to be a lot more trouble than they are worth according to most word of mouth.

I may get a new one in the future, in fact I have the money for it now, I just need that money for other things (like food!). I hear the latest chipsets are actually much more stable than previous years, so if there's any comfort in getting a new one it is that.

For now, though, it looks like this odyssey is over: Xbox 2, Monk 1.