Terrain during battle placement question

[John the Mad]

Actually,i guess this is going to be part ranting question.

I know this isn't an EB specific question even so i hope you guys don't mind me asking it here.

Anyways i understand that when two armies fight a field battle that the armies starting position is relative to their facings on the strat map,so say that if you attack an army to your northwest it will be facing southeast after deployment.That part i understand.

What i don't understand is how the game decides the starting terrain.As an example there could be 3/4 of a map with wide open terrain,flat or rolling,and 1/4 of it is composed of woods...The game will almost always decide that both armies start off,thereby the battle being,in the woods!Same way with steep hills,on the strategic map if your army is atop a hill and an enemy army is below on level ground the game very often decides that wether you are the attacker or defender that your army placement is at the bottom of the hill.

Is this done on purpose as a way to nerf the human player a bit and to give the AI some kind of terrain advantage or is it just one of the quirks of the last couple TW(Rome and Medieval2) games?

My main complaint on this is that even in the lighter category of woods you have to tediously micromange your movement step by step,and even then,the game decides that,even if you are facing straight at the enemy when starting the movement,that what you really want to do is to end your movement with your flank exposed to them.

It almost actually gets to be a bit tedious with the pattern of siege,siege,siege,..fight a battle in the middle of the woods..siege,siege,siege..fight a battle up a hill..siege,siege siege..fight a battle on a wooded hillside.I guess you get the point.

I can actually count on one finger(and its not the one i'm holding up thinking about this) the number of battles that took place on open rolling terrain,and OH WAS IT GLORIOUS!

There was an awesome opening fight between the skirmeshers on both sides,cavalry charges and counter-charges,then the main lines clashing,units manuevering,without constant management,towards their goals in somewhat cohesive formations.On the largest unit setting it was truly amazing to watch it unfold.

I guess thats why i keep playing hoping that a battle like that happens again and why i dont understand that the game has most field battles taking place in terrain,where unless the army was ambushed(in the case of woods) or was forced by a lack of other options(attacking up steep hills)that so few allow you to play in open terrain.I think the one battle that really set me off on this was when i fought a rebel army that the strat map was showing on a beach tile and the game decided that it took place on a map that was completely covered in woods from one end to the other.

Well thanks for listening.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The terrain is determined by what the strat map tile the fight is taking place on looks like. It basically just zooms in on that tile and renders what is on the strat map in the campaign map. If you are next to a forest there will be forest on the edge. If you are next to some mountains, there will be a big hill in that direction.

The AI basically places their troops where the were on the strat map, but will move them to take advantage of hills or cover on the battle map.

[Fierro]

Many times I've attempted to strategically place myself on a hill on the strat map to get attacked by the AI who seems to be downhill but once in the battle map it turns out I'm the one at the bottom!

[Megas Methuselah]

The terrain is determined by what the strat map tile the fight is taking place on looks like. It basically just zooms in on that tile and renders what is on the strat map in the campaign map. If you are next to a forest there will be forest on the edge. If you are next to some mountains, there will be a big hill in that direction.

The AI basically places their troops where the were on the strat map, but will move them to take advantage of hills or cover on the battle map.

What about that square outside Carthage that looks like a plain from the strat map, but is in fact a sea of forests.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It may actually be a forest, but the city model or roads make the strat map forest models go away.

[Megas Methuselah]

It may actually be a forest, but the city model or roads make the strat map forest models go away.

Oh. Will right-clicking over that road on the strat map say it's a forest?

[/Bean\]

This is why I want RTW2 to have the ability to zoom in to the ground outside of battles, like you can in cities, where you see normal people aimlessly walking about and stuff. That way we could actually see good areas to fight, rather than relying on the normal view of the strat map which can often be misleading.

[tls5669]

This is why I want RTW2 to have the ability to zoom in to the ground outside of battles, like you can in cities, where you see normal people aimlessly walking about and stuff. That way we could actually see good areas to fight, rather than relying on the normal view of the strat map which can often be misleading.

Wow I didnt even know they were coming out with a RTW2

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Hmm, I must admit that don't fight that often in woods. Most of the time I fight on the open with smaller groups of trees here and there. Also, you can often place your army into the open. You do deploy and organise your army before you press the start button, right?

[/Bean\]

Wow I didnt even know they were coming out with a RTW2

I meant this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=114867

[Megas Methuselah]

Wow I didnt even know they were coming out with a RTW2

They aren't, child.

[tls5669]

I meant this:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=114867

http://www.gameguru.in/pc/2007/28/ro...-on-the-anvil/

Too bad it didnt come true.

[tls5669]

They aren't, child.

CHILD????

The 5669 in my name is my birthday, 5/6/69. So get a clue.

[vartan]

Why do some people tend to assume some/most forum members on such a video-game forum as this to be children?

[/Bean\]

I dont think he did...I think it was a joke. Why do some people not have any humour...

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Rather than being able to zoom in and see the terrain, the faction with the advantage in the battle (defender mostly) should have the ability to choose the battlefield. If you don't like what the game gives you, you should be able to load up a different battlefield. The single tiles in the strat map are huge areas that contain more than just one battlefield and you should be able to choose the best location within that tile.

[/Bean\]

Seconded.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Or something like a third, in between, map. That is similarly generated like the battle maps are in RTW, but it is much bigger. It is two dimensional and only has a few details. Then you get to choose a location on that map which will then be generated for the battle map. And you could have things like traits and ancillaries give more detail to that map. A scout ancillary could double the detail of the map and an engineer ancillary could give a more accurate topographical representation on that map.

[Alsatia]

Honestly, that is a really good idea!
Seconded...

But.....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There's absolutely zero use in asking for anything, so you're just tormenting yourselves.

[John the Mad]

Hmm, I must admit that don't fight that often in woods. Most of the time I fight on the open with smaller groups of trees here and there. Also, you can often place your army into the open. You do deploy and organise your army before you press the start button, right?

Yes.The default deployment area though is often in the middle of the woods or at the bottom of a hill.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Have you tried my Giant Tree Fix? Link is in my sig. Or just play Saba.

[Macilrille]

Extreme AI dumbness in placing its units in MTW2, they were stuck there while I killed their german allies assaulting across a river. Then I just surrounded them with archers and when out of arrows charged with Cav and spears.

I hope the Team can fix it for EB II...



No image displayed... edited to add it;

It is here http://picasaweb.google.com/Palle.Ra...23136583608514