Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

[The Stranger]

what is the tally

why am i breaking rules?

[Jolt]

what is the tally

why am i breaking rules?

Nah, rechecked the rules and it appears all your revelations are indeed within the rules. Sorry for that. :P

[DJGingivitis]

vote: faction heir. Hopefully it will turn out better than mongolica.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: FH

For clarification's sake, by "one PM" I meant "show us all one PM", not "send me a PM".

[Beefy187]

I feel silly

But does all mafia family get their kill on the same night or does some only get the opportunity on odds or even night?

[Khazaar]

For simplicitys sake I would not allow dead people to speak or participate otherwise. With so many people playing this could throw a serious wrench into the gamebalance. I´d preferr if this game stays interesting and no information is revealed by disgruntled dead people...

[TinCow]

Vote: FactionHeir

Finally a decent case emerges.

I will post the following for further info on the case against Sasaki, for a future round. At one point I was scrambling to find a third person for my (ultimately failed) protection group. As part of this, I sent a PM out to about 10 people, one of whom was Sasaki:

As the time limit for the round has been extended, I am making an attempt to find a person to assist in a protection group. I already one partner, but need another person. Please reply to this PM if you are willing to work in a protection group tonight.

Last time I worked with you you betrayed our group to the mafia and sold out our surgeon and detectives...I think not, TinCow, I think not.

Sasaki

Sasaki's response seems way, way off to me. First, it's totally inaccurate. I had nothing to do with the death of any surgeon in Capo II. While I did get a detective (CR) killed, it was by giving his identity to Sasaki himself, who then gave it to the mafia. I never "sold out" anyone, I was firmly pro-town the entire time and just gave out too much information to the wrong person (ironically, Sasaki). Second, Sasaki knows that was my first mafia game (and thus that I made newbie errors) and we have had a very friendly and often cooperative relationship since then. He and I have had numerous discussions via PM during mafia games since then, and he has more than once sought out my opinion unprompted. This response is totally out of character for our relationship since Capo II. It strikes me as a deliberate effort to keep me at arms reach and to prevent me from inquiring further about what he's doing.

I didn't post this earlier, because there are many pro-town reasons for such a reaction, but since Sasaki appears to have acted like this with everyone else, I don't see the harm anymore.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I've reconsidered on something. I would welcome a protection group, just in case one fails tonight. If there are people available, and as long as we don't compromise existing groups.

It's a nice offer, and on further thought, I don't necessarily need to die right now just to prove a point.






FactionHeir: 12 (Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, Chaotix, Jolt, LittleGrizzly, slashandburn, YLC, CountArach, Andres, DJGingivitis, GeneralHankerchief, TinCow)

Beskar: 5 (Iskander, johnhughthom, Tratorix, Lord Winter, Sigurd)

Reenk Roink: 2 (El Diablo, Shinseikhaan)
Askthepizzaguy: 2 (Centurion1*, Sasaki)
Beefy187: 2 (FactionHeir, Gaius Scribonius Curio)
ricera10: 2 (Kommodus, spL1tp3r50naL1ty)
AVSM: 2 (Myrddraal, Double A)
Sasaki: 2 (Ichigo, pevergreen)

Andres: 1 (gibsonsg91921)
DisgruntledGoat: 1 (psychonaut)
Dutchguy: 1 (woad&fangs)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (White_eyes:D)
Scottishranger: 1 (Yaropolk)
Double A: 1 (AVSM)
Caius: 1 (CountArach)
Splitpersonality: 1 (Beefy)

No Lynch: 1 (SSNeoperestroika)

Abstain: 10 (atheotes, Caius, Diana Abnoba, DisgruntledGoat, Moros, ricera10, Twilightblade)


A volunteer to recheck the tally would be lovely, this is based off of Seamus' last tally and counted from there. I am not confident in its accuracy.

[FactionHeir]

Unfortunately I'm not a made. I assume Seamus rejigged roles, because this is my role PM

Your Role is:

Wiseguy, currently unaffiliated.

Victory Conditions

You can chart your own course to victory. You can join a mafia family and work for that family’s victory. You can join a mafia family, try to supplant the Don and become Capo di Tutti Capi yourself. You can form your own Criminal family and try to dominate the others. You can even put crime behind you and work for the victory of the town over the mafia. What route you choose is up to you. If you remain loyal to the town, your victory conditions will be as below:

Town win with 41+% of original townie roles surviving = decisive victory.
Town win with 21-40% of original townie roles surviving = clear victory.
Town win with fewer than 20% of the original townie roles surviving = close victory.
Neither side wins = draw.
Town defeat with fewer than 10% of the orginal mafiosi or wiseguys surviving = close defeat.
Town defeat 11-25% of orginal mafiosi or wiseguys roles surviving = clear defeat.
Town defeat 26+% of orginal mafiosi or wiseguys roles surviving = decisive defeat.
-- Your personal survival moves you one category up on this scale.

Powers & Responsibilities

A. General:

1. You are the raw material for expanding a crime family. Remember that if they are unable to recruit you to their cause, you probably become very “expendable” in their eyes.

2. -Lots of red stuff here-

B. Day Actions:

1. You can select/vote as can all players.

C. Night Actions:

1. Combine with 3 townies you can attempt to kill one target per night (after two successful kills, one of them will become a “Wise Guy” and can progress from there). Such kills only count as “half-credit” for your ascension to Made Gangster (unaffiliated).

2. Combine with 2 townies you can attempt to protect one target per night (after two successful protections, one of you may become a “Doctor’ and can progress from there; if you do you’ll cease being a Wise Guy.

3. If following two successful protections you are selected as Doctor and refuse, you can choose to become a regular townie. Two further successful protections will result in your promotion to Detective – but in your case you will become a Rogue Detective.

4. One advantage you have over a townie, while participating in such townie groups, is that should you end up as a “solo” on a save or kill attempt, it is unlikely to get you killed – though there is a chance your identity would be revealed.

5. You may also combine efforts with one other wiseguy or made gangster to kill a target, providing you have the official sanction of that Mafia family. Two successful kills in this manner, along with the formal acceptance of the Don of that family, and you will be promoted to Made Gangster in that family. These kill credits must be compiled with the same family in order to count.

6. You can also achieve Made Gangster status with a non-mafia or new mafia “family.” This requires 4 successful kills as in the half credit noted above.

Investigations

1. If you are investigated by a Detective or FBI Detective, you are equally likely to be noted as a “criminal” or as being “unclear.”
2. If you have killed someone in a non-mafia-sanctioned killing, you will register as “guilty.”
3. If you have killed someone as part of a mafia-sanctioned kill team, you will register as “guilty” only on the night of the murder, but will register as “criminal” thereafter even if you were an “unclear” before.

Role Changing

As noted above, you have many options for a role change and can progress readily in that new role. Remember, once you have chosen a path by moving forward into a new role, however, you cannot reconsider and revert.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The unaffiliated wiseguy role is floating around and not that hard to gain a copy of.

[FactionHeir]

*shrug* I haven't seen it in the thread and I haven't been contacted by anyone but Jolt and Yaropolk yesterday both claiming I was mafia. And I told them that I was a wiseguy.

Lynch me if you must, I was joining the game as a favor anyway.


As proof of my words above:

You know you are Mafia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the deal. I know you are Mafia. There are other people who know you're Mafia, so killing me won't do the slightest good.

I also have knowledge about an important secret role which is crucial for the town victory. He was protected last turn, and he will most probably be protected this turn. I am doing this to protect myself as I'm possibly gonna be lynched next day (Or maybe not) or killed in two nights (Or maybe not), but here's the deal. I tell you who the special role is, and who is protecting him, and you do the following: On the next night, you kill one of the people protecting him and you kill the special role. How about that?

Very townie like to want to off a pro town role...

And right after I told him what I just said in the thread - that I'm not mafia, but a wiseguy, I get a PM from his buddy Yaropolk:

Capo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

FH,

I am a townie. I know you are mafia - I talked to your predecessor, who unfortunately was quite newbish at the game. 3 other people know as well (no idea if they are townies or not) I want to become mafia, being town is boring. I will kill for next 2 nights to become wiseguy if you promise to recruit me. In exchange I'll help you infiltrate townie circle and you can direct my vote if you want. I will tell you who else knows your identity if you agree to play ball.

Yaro

Came exactly a few minutes after my reply to Jolt, after he read my PM.

As already reiterated, maybe II did have a mafia role (and I asked him why everyone was contacting me thinking I was mafia), but I was not given his role even though I took over for his player.

Your suspects are the above.

[Kagemusha]

Sounds to me that we have a line for gallows. dirty townies Sasaki and Yaropolk and Jolt probably mafia. Now is Factionheir mafia dragging others with him to grave or a wiseguy thats a question mark. Also what is the connection of Askthepizzaguy on all this?

I think i vote: Jolt as according to Factionheirs post he is more then most likely mafia.

[Death is yonder]

I am a townie. I know you are mafia - I talked to your predecessor,

And how would you know that he is a mafia if you were busy protecting ATPG last night?

Not so alone are we Mr Yaropolk?

I will kill for next 2 nights to become wiseguy if you promise to recruit me. In exchange I'll help you infiltrate townie circle and you can direct my vote if you want.

ATPG, I think we need to reorganize several groups...

If the following is true, I will:

Vote:Yaropolk

But do clarify if it sounds a bit scummy, but this is either very very convenient for FH, or just plain BS.

The unaffiliated wiseguy role is floating around and not that hard to gain a copy of.

That thought is floating somewhere around...

I want to become mafia, being town is boring.

Point taken, now what say we lynch you?

I understand people are asking for evidence on FactionHeir.

The evidence is, I bank my life that he is a guilty made Stracchi. If the result comes back clean, you can kill me.

Very well, but I'm still very curious why Yaropolk, a supposed "townie", has extra information when he was busy doing a night action last night?

Unvote: Yaropolk
Vote: FactionHeir

Haha alright, I have been working on getting something concrete. There is something I have found out that I plan on revealing to everyone later tonight (Approx 2200-2400 CST) after I hear back from some people.

Uh huh... something concrete eh? And you plan to reveal it at night?

Why not reveal it now so we can make a more calculated lynch since you apparently have found something "concrete"

[Kagemusha]

And how would you know that he is a mafia if you were busy protecting ATPG last night?

Not so alone are we Mr Yaropolk?



ATPG, I think we need to reorganize several groups...

If the following is true, I will:

Vote:Yaropolk

But do clarify if it sounds a bit scummy, but this is either very very convenient for FH, or just plain BS.



That thought is floating somewhere around...



Point taken, now what say we lynch you?



Very well, but I'm still very curious why Yaropolk, a supposed "townie", has extra information when he was busy doing a night action last night?

Unvote: Yaropolk
Vote: FactionHeir



Uh huh... something concrete eh? And you plan to reveal it at night?

Why not reveal it now so we can make a more calculated lynch since you apparently have found something "concrete"

And exactly what makes you trust askthepizzaguy so solidly?

[FactionHeir]

In my mind its quite clear that Yaro, Jolt and ATPG are in the same scum group. Jolt's threat in his PM to me makes that very clear. Either they are in the same family or they are two allied families.

unvote: Beefy, vote Jolt

[Yaropolk]

I did not talk to Emperor Inviticus, someone else in our group did (wont mention who). I in fact sent in orders to protect both yesterday, and am part of a protection group today. Perhaps Seamus can be more clear on the meaning of inconclusive pm. The full PM is below to see that I got a legitemate response.

Protection Effort inconclusive, no attack made

Someone did talk to EI. I promptly proposed to our town group to kill him. We sent in orders to protect last night instead. Since mafia boy was going to be around a few rounds I figured this is a good chance to pump him for info.

Vote Factionheir

[FactionHeir]

That all makes sense except for the part where I am not mafia and you still say I am as if to conveniently prevent the lynch of another

[Andres]

Jolt, Yaro and ATPG start to smell fishy.

ATPG, why exactly did you want protection? After all, you got the information through contacts in private, not by using some special pro-town power.

The fact that you contacted 1/3d of the players in private also smells like recruiting.

FoS : ATPG

[TinCow]

Perhaps Seamus can be more clear on the meaning of inconclusive pm.

I also got an 'inconclusive' result, despite definitely showing up for the protection solo. I think protection groups will always get 'inconclusive' if the target wasn't attacked, regardless of whether sufficient people showed up for the protection to be successful.

[Death is yonder]

And exactly what makes you trust askthepizzaguy so solidly?

Well, I'm not exactly 100% sure, but the only motivation he would have from doing this:

I understand people are asking for evidence on FactionHeir.

The evidence is, I bank my life that he is a guilty made Stracchi. If the result comes back clean, you can kill me.

1. ATPG is a mafia/don/made (more likely a made if he is a mafia), and they have somehow come up with the notion that FH is a Don and is thus worth making lots of attention bank onto him to execute him now.

2. ATPG is a townie/wiseguy/investigator and he really came up with a guilty result, and has mulled over it and decided that he might as well do something useful.

3. ATPG is a ballsy mafia (quite probable actually, on the account of ballsy mafia), and is confident that the townie (?) protection group organized to protect him will save him from retribution from other mafias from exposing another family's member.

4. Various other reasons

I would just like to state that if FactionHeir doesn't turn up guilty, ( he seems to be our wrong man?) Yaropolk is my next suspect.

I would also like to pause and consider that it is on ATPG's word that we have a pretty large group of voting on FactionHeir.

I would like to hear the rest of the players take on the matter

On the matter of inconclusiveness, these are the pms I got from Seamus.

Inconclusive

This was Seamus's first pm to me at approximately 4.59 pm GMT. 3 hours later, he sent me this:

Protection Effort inconclusive, no attack made

I'm guessing he thought it was too ambiguous and was trying to prevent any confusion as to whether the inconclusiveness was due to lack of participation or lack of need for it.

I also got an 'inconclusive' result, despite definitely showing up for the protection solo.

Hmm... confusing

[Pannonian]

For simplicitys sake I would not allow dead people to speak or participate otherwise. With so many people playing this could throw a serious wrench into the gamebalance. I´d preferr if this game stays interesting and no information is revealed by disgruntled dead people...

Activity to keep pro-town discussion alive has always been at least partly reliant on dead people keeping interest levels up. Silencing the dead has always been a useful scum tactic, so that voting can be more easily controlled.

Vote: Khazaar

Please explain yourself.

[Myrddraal]

I agree that ATPG's gang certainly is racking up the fish smell. Having said that, FactionHeir would behave no differently whether he was or wasn't mafia, and this alleged PM is too good to avoid. To be honest I didn't expect anything nearly as concrete in the early rounds.

Unvote, Vote: FactionHeir

If the autopsy acquits him then, as Kage says, we have a queue forming for the gallows.

[FactionHeir]

1. ATPG claimed I was a made, not a Don.
2. If there's supposedly a Wiseguy PM floating around privately (which as I said know nothing about because I have not been in contact with anyone else), then I would imagine an inconclusive protection PM was floating around as well.

Having said that, FactionHeir would behave no differently whether he was or wasn't mafia

You are too kind

[Myrddraal]

Activity to keep pro-town discussion alive has always been at least partly reliant on dead people keeping interest levels up. Silencing the dead has always been a useful scum tactic, so that voting can be more easily controlled.

Vote: Khazaar

Please explain yourself.

Looking back, I think Khazaar's only post in this game has been an attempt to silence TS accusations. Did TS finger a mafia buddy? Lurking certainly doesn't keep a game interesting.

Since FH is lynched already:

Unvote, Vote: Khazaar

[Death is yonder]

1. ATPG claimed I was a made, not a Don.
2. If there's supposedly a Wiseguy PM floating around privately (which as I said know nothing about because I have not been in contact with anyone else), then I would imagine an inconclusive protection PM was floating around as well.

Just out of interest, does the publicly posted wise guy role pm look practically the same or something from Capo II or Capo I? If it does, perhaps that is something to consider?

I agree that ATPG's gang certainly is racking up the fish smell.

I would agree that its starting to look a bit weird, but lets see where this round takes us first.

[TinCow]

I would also like to pause and consider that it is on ATPG's word that we have a pretty large group of voting on FactionHeir.

I would like to hear the rest of the players take on the matter

If ATPG is lying, we'll know it eventually. In Capo, the roles of the dead are posted after 3 day/night cycles have passed. If FH turns out not to be who ATPG says he is, and ATPG is still alive at that point, he is an easy lynch. Thus, I see no harm in voting based on ATPG's claims because we'll know whether he's lying soon enough.

[Death is yonder]

Then the question becomes, would it be still plausible/beneficial to continue the series of protection groups on ATPG?

Do the gains outweigh the losses? Isn't 3 rounds a lot of time to do more scummy stuff?

[FactionHeir]

Considering ATPG supposedly got the information privately rather than via whichever role he has, I'm not sure how this warrants a protection in the first place. A good townie does not mind making a sacrifice for the greater good.

Besides, if ATPG is targeted and there is no protection group on him, we will know soon enough if he was a Don (i.e. his Luca saves him) or not. This would also mean 1 less mafia kill if he needs family protection because his Luca wouldn't be able to go out and kill. In fact, a probing vigilante group against him might be a viable option to test that hypothesis.

I would also suggest lynching Jolt next phase, because he obviously is mafia.

[TinCow]

Then the question becomes, would it be still plausible/beneficial to continue the series of protection groups on ATPG?

Do the gains outweigh the losses? Isn't 3 rounds a lot of time to do more scummy stuff?

Capo is a target rich environment. There will probably always be multiple lynch-worthy scum in every single day phase; we're already seeing it here. IMO, the best way to operate is to knock off whoever seems to be the highest ranking. At the moment, we have a potential Made competing with wiseguys, traitorous townies, and unknowns. So, knock off the Made and re-evaluate in the next round. If ATPG is top of the list on Day 3, then he'll get lynched then.

In any case, at worst, FH is a Made. At best, he is a publicly known wiseguy. If FH isn't a Made now, you can bet that he will be later in the game if we let him live. So, even if FH is telling the truth, it's not the end of the world to lynch him.

[Sigurd]

Considering the fits Imperator Invictus is throwing all over the org, I am inclined to at least believe that II confessed to something. Why would he get angry and blow up like that if this is not remotely true?
Saying that, It does not necessarily follow that FactionHeir would inherit II's role.
It is an assumption made by ATPG, Jolt and Yaropolk.

It was ATPG who made it public, but II attacked both Jolt and Yaropolk before FactionHeir revealed their PMs. ATPG did not disclose where he got this information from. Imperator did with his tantrums. And apparently FactionHeir gave those names to Imperator which caused him to short circuit.
I say FactionHeir looks more guilty than innocent.

unvote: RR, vote: FactionHeir