Capo di Tutti Capi III [Concluded]

[FactionHeir]

I already explained the II throwing a fit part in my post above. I asked him about why people are PMing me about the role he had when my wiseguy role doesn't seem to say its mafia affiliated.

[Sigurd]

I already explained the II throwing a fit part in my post above. I asked him about why people are PMing me about the role he had when my wiseguy role doesn't seem to say its mafia affiliated.

Did you specifically mention Jolt and Yaropolk to Imperator ? And what would the normal reaction be to such a PM? I am guessing not the way Imperator reacted.

I am thinking you and/or your Stracchi buddies came down hard on poor Imperator which in turn flipped out.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Considering ATPG supposedly got the information privately rather than via whichever role he has, I'm not sure how this warrants a protection in the first place. A good townie does not mind making a sacrifice for the greater good.

Besides, if ATPG is targeted and there is no protection group on him, we will know soon enough if he was a Don (i.e. his Luca saves him) or not. This would also mean 1 less mafia kill if he needs family protection because his Luca wouldn't be able to go out and kill. In fact, a probing vigilante group against him might be a viable option to test that hypothesis.

I would also suggest lynching Jolt next phase, because he obviously is mafia.

Why is he obviously mafia when we haven't confirmed anything about ATPG? I find that just as baseless an accusation as ATPG has been using to incriminate you. I'm cautious of ATPG for more reasons than what has come up in this thread alone. But I'm willing to go for the "if he's clean I can go" clause that ATPG has added to his argument.

Obviously, I do agree with FactionHeir that should ATPG turn out to be "pulling the wool over our eyes" that the rest of his posse would look rather guilty by association.

One question I have for ATPG is why did you feel so threatened N1?

I'm willing to play along for now ATPG, I just hope I'm not being misled.

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: FractionHeir

[FactionHeir]

Did you specifically mention Jolt and Yaropolk to Imperator ? And what would the normal reaction be to such a PM? I am guessing not the way Imperator reacted.

I am thinking you and/or your Stracchi buddies came down hard on poor Imperator which in turn flipped out.

You know me well enough to know I don't strong-arm
I simply asked him who he told that he was mafia and why so I could inform these people that I am not. I did indeed mention Jolt and Yaro specifically to him and asked if there were any others.
I quoted my role PM sent to me by Seamus in public as this has become blown way out of proportion now.

[Khazaar]

I think I made it plenty clear why I think that it might be better if dead players aren´t allowed to talk, but let me rephrase that. It is mentioned that previous Capo games have been broken by bad conduct just by posting stuff they normally weren´t allowed to. I´d rather be dead and read an interesting game then live and sit through a broken one. If i were Mafia I would never have commented on this publicly, intead I would have PM´ed the host. A bit too cheap to get rid of me, especcially since you yourself haven´t been overly active, maybe you´re just looking for an easy target.

Vote:Abstain

[Sigurd]

You know me well enough to know I don't strong-arm
I simply asked him who he told that he was mafia and why so I could inform these people that I am not. I did indeed mention Jolt and Yaro specifically to him and asked if there were any others.
I quoted my role PM sent to me by Seamus in public as this has become blown way out of proportion now.

Maybe you are in the clear in this regard, but the fact remains. Something made Imperator flip regarding this and put him promptly in the timeout box.
Maybe you are not Stracchi but Imperator was. Maybe he was "strong-armed" by members of the Stracchi family - if so - they should at least contact TosaInu and square things with Imperator.

A brief look at this:
You asked Imperator not knowing who accused you. Imperator goes bananas.
Imperator accuses Jolt and Yaropolk of lying and gets a timeout for excessive swearing and spamming.
It still doesn't add up. What am I missing?

[scottishranger]

Tally As of this post


FactionHeir: 16 (Askthepizzaguy, Beskar, Chaotix, Jolt, LittleGrizzly, slashandburn, YLC, CA, Andres, DJGingy, General Hankerchief, TinCow, Death is Yonder, Yaropolk, Sigurd, Disgruntled Goat)


Beskar: 4 (Iskander, johnhughthom, Tratorix, Lord Winter)

Askthepizzaguy: 2 (Centurion1*, Sasaki)
Khazaar: 2 (Pannonian,Myrddaal)
ricera10: 2 (Kommodus, spL1tp3r50naL1ty)
Sasaki: 2 (Ichigo,Pevergreen)
Reenk Roink: 2 (El Diablo, Shinseikhaan)
Jolt: 2 (Kage, FactionHeir)

AVSM: 1 (Double A)
Double A: 1 (AVSM)
Andres: 1 (gibsonsg91921)
DisgruntledGoat: 1 (psychonaut)
Dutchguy: 1 (woad&fangs)
LittleGrizzly: 1 (White_eyes:D)
Myrddraal: 1 (Andres)
Sasaki: 2 (Ichigo, CA)
Sigurd: 1 (Pevergreen)
Split: 1 (Beefy)
Beefy187: 1 (Gaius Scribonius Curio)



No Lynch: 1 (SSNeoperestroika)

Abstain: 8 (atheotes, Caius, Jolt, Diana Abnoba,Moros, ricera10, Twilightblade, Khazaar)

*Centurion1's vote is not formatted correctly;


Well, a lot stuff has happened while iv been sleeping. Unfortunetly, I havent seen all the incriminating evidence against FH yet. (wink wink I would like to see it for myself)

[gibsonsg91921]

Next off, we should kill everyone who voted for FactionHeir because that is a runaway bandwagon.

[Craterus]

vote:ricera10. Doesn't seem like my vote will make a difference as FactionHeir is already a condemned man but I haven't read the thread thoroughly enough to know the case against him. ATPG's word? Or something more than that.

I've only skimmed the thread because I don't have a lot of time and I understand the deadline is less than 10 minutes away.

However, Lord Winter's post on page 5... I'll just confirm that I haven't been in contact with him so far in this game. Strangely aggressive behaviour which could well have started a bandwagon on me but I don't think he's mafia. It's a bit too aggressive this early in the game for that.

[shlin28]

That was a very very long read

FH seems to be a pretty good lynch for the first round, but I like to bring up a tiny accusation against ATPG.

Unfortunately, I cannot quote the evidence as the conversations which formed it were made on MSN on another computer, so I can't quote the chat history

ATPG told me that, after I said The Stranger is acting very fishy, The Stranger had talked to ATPG and DJV (and others) about forming a mafia family. That in itself is quite a coup, if it was true.

Then, I contacted The Stranger to ask him about it. He said he did not do that, and instead asked them to join protection groups, and that he did not mention forming a mafia family at all.

Either of them could be lying, and the liar would almost certainly be mafia-alligned. (Below is my really rubbish reasons for why TS is more trustworthy than ATPG... but on a reread my arguments sucked, so everyone just consider why would ATPG and TS have conflicting views on their conversations - if it is TS lying, he's dead already, if it is ATPG lying, he commited something extrememely suspicious, so either way, it's good for the town.)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Stranger's role is almost certainly a townie - He seems to have a townie PM before it was revealed publically. (Of course, if the mafia were given cover PMs... then the theory falls apart) Don't forget that he posted a really silly question on the summary thread ("Do protection groups still exist?"), which I really don't think an experienced player with an anti-town role would ask, even if their PM was incomplete like TS's was. He also appears to be organising a lot of protection groups. Hence, I think he is pretty much townie. A townie could still turn against the town of course, but what would he gain from getting rid of ATPG, a mere Wiseguy?

ATPG on the other hand, is an admitted Wiseguy. He also has lots of information, which by itself is not suspicious, but, he claimed to me during D1 that he has "a known mafia member" contacting him, which is now evidently II. But why did he not reveal earlier? By waiting for some 48 hours, he could not possibly gain any more information about it. He also said he knows several townies who are planning to turn to the dark side... yet no names, not even a threat to reveal them. Suspicious much?

Vote: ATPG

This case probably makes no sense whatsoever, as I am still recovering from a 12 hour flight, but my conversations with ATPG and TS had just been far too suspicious for my liking.

[Ironside]

I'll guess FactionHeir will die today and it makes quite some sence, Tincow covered the resons quite well.

But as FH is already condemned in practice I'll go with another option.

Vote: Askthepizzaguy

There's still some oddities about Askthepizzaguy and his group, even in the case that he's truthful about FH. ATPG admitted in a previous post in considering to not reveal FH, but because FH hasn't done a whole lot, ATPG decided to reveal (ATPG:s words in post 329).

A. How does ATPG have any knowledge of that? We can be fairly certain that ATPG and FH had no pm contact otherwise it would already have surfaced by one of the players.
B. Why would a pro-townie consider it? FH would most likely keep the names of the rest of his family secret for at least several rounds in case of any type of infiltration attemts

Both Jolt and Yaropolk is supposed to have contacted FH with mafia offers, that FH is presumed to have turned down. Thus both seems to be affiliated with ATPG (being his source of info, that can we be quite certain of) and been doing some odd buissness, as FH not going the mafia way is "he hasn't done a whole lot" and warrants a kill. How many townies want a "puppet mafia" for killing instead of hampering the growth of a mafia family?

We also have YLC that pulls a:

"So - FoS: Factionheir and GSC
And Unvote: ATPG, Vote: Factionheir",
without any reason in post 252. That is the first vote on FH with FH done nothing in the thread and before ATPG reveals anything. YLC and ATPG in contact?

About Imperator, one possiblity is a leaked red "childhood friend" that was in last round, or that he feels betrayed by someone he gave the info to. The info is a bit detailed to have been recieved any other way and his hizzy fit feels a bit odd for simply being "strong-armed" by his family.

[ULC]

Ironside, I gave reason - I said it was fishy that Beefy was being accused and voted for because of a Fedora, and thus changed my vote to FH, who started the vote, and I was indeed waiting for FH to counter or at least full explain why, even after it was asserted their was no reason to vote for beefy, he did not change his vote. - based on the context of what I was saying, I would have thought a man such as yourself would have caught that.

However, afterward, ATPG did approach me and ask that my vote remain on FH because he was a mafioso...

[glyphz]

That was a very very long read

FH seems to be a pretty good lynch for the first round, but I like to bring up a tiny accusation against ATPG.

A long read, perhaps, but it's a much more promising D1 development than most (that I've been part of so far).
Jolt's and Yaropolk's PMs (provided by FactionHeir) are indeed very disturbing, and I find them to be possibly more inclined to go rogue than FH. But then again, these 'rebellious' thoughts comes out when they have a means, such is an exposed Wiseguy. Most likely a better D1 lynch than some random vote-throwing.

Also, I wouldn't let go the issue of Beefy wearing a fedora in the write-ups. There are more scum in this game than pro-town roles, so in case the detective also wears a fedora, it's a small chance that he is, unless the other mafia snuff him in the next turns.

On a lighter side, since FH is pretty much secured, I can preserve my D1 tradition, thus Vote: YLC

[Lord Winter]

I'm still uneasy about the faction heir lynch. The PM could have been faked by pizza fairly eaisly. However, beggers can't be chosers and you can't afford to wait untill your sure a person is guility in mafia.



As for Jolt and Yaro, I would advocate lynching Jolt next round and watching yaro through the rest of the game. I agree with the others Jolt is showing many signs of being a made. However, Yaro is a townie who wanted to become mafia but didn't. At this stage he's to small a fish when we have so many other better targets laying around.

[Lord Winter]

Really need to work on bolding my votes

Unvote: Beskar
Vote: Factionheir

[Kagemusha]

Well Factionheir is either casualty of war or we got a mafioso. When the autopsy comes out we will know more.

[Ironside]

Ironside, I gave reason - I said it was fishy that Beefy was being accused and voted for because of a Fedora, and thus changed my vote to FH, who started the vote, and I was indeed waiting for FH to counter or at least full explain why, even after it was asserted their was no reason to vote for beefy, he did not change his vote. - based on the context of what I was saying, I would have thought a man such as yourself would have caught that.

However, afterward, ATPG did approach me and ask that my vote remain on FH because he was a mafioso...

Evidently my searching didn't go back far enough in the thread, didn't see FH:s earlier posts. These mafia threads grow too fast. My appologies.

My point about ATPG still stands though. He did not comment about an earlier part of the thread.

[Haudegen]

Wow, what a day.

Vote: FactionHeir

I think everything has been said on this issue. After three days we will probably see clearer.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hmm. In all, I suppose Factionheir's not a bad lynch. But I am rather suspicious of ATPG and his quite devoted followers.

Since Factionheir's death is assured, I'll follow rule #1 and
vote: Sasaki

CR

[FactionHeir]

Maybe you are in the clear in this regard, but the fact remains. Something made Imperator flip regarding this and put him promptly in the timeout box.
Maybe you are not Stracchi but Imperator was. Maybe he was "strong-armed" by members of the Stracchi family - if so - they should at least contact TosaInu and square things with Imperator.

A brief look at this:
You asked Imperator not knowing who accused you. Imperator goes bananas.
Imperator accuses Jolt and Yaropolk of lying and gets a timeout for excessive swearing and spamming.
It still doesn't add up. What am I missing?

Not quite, I asked Imperator knowing that Jolt and Yaro accused me. That is the link missing in your analysis

[The Stranger]

i trust ATPG. I'm a townie, yes. and my kill is made by someone who knew i had some plans to rally the town. i wanted to do so myself while staying alive but i hadnt thought about someone killing me so soon because usually they trust me to do something crazy and get myself lynched.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Soo much to read...

Vote: Factionheir

[LittleGrizzly]

Hmm. In all, I suppose Factionheir's not a bad lynch. But I am rather suspicious of ATPG and his quite devoted followers.

If its not a bad lynch (by day 1 standards its a pretty good one) then is it really devotion to ATPG causing us to vote FH or the fact we have a pretty convincing case ?

If you more talking about his defenders thats fair enough... I myself don't trust him fully and his excessive pm'ing is a cause for concern...

[shlin28]

Well my theory just got blown out of the water by The Stranger...

Oh well... Unvote: ATPG, Vote: Abstain

[Crazed Rabbit]

Hmm. In all, I suppose Factionheir's not a bad lynch. But I am rather suspicious of ATPG and his quite devoted followers.

If its not a bad lynch (by day 1 standards its a pretty good one) then is it really devotion to ATPG causing us to vote FH or the fact we have a pretty convincing case ?

If you more talking about his defenders thats fair enough... I myself don't trust him fully and his excessive pm'ing is a cause for concern...

When I say devoted followers, I don't mean people just voting for Factionheir. I mean the ones PM'ing him and insisting that he's a made mafioso.

CR

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm aware that my numerous contacts and affiliations, and my prompting of this runaway bandwagon on FactionHeir makes people raise eyebrows.

This isn't a question of what I would do as a mafioso, because I've demonstrated I'd do a lot, in the past. The question is, why would I stick my neck out this far just to get FactionHeir lynched on a hunch, or if he were a rival mafioso and I was looking out for my family? The odds of FH hitting one member of my supposed family versus me definitely dying soon don't add up.

If Factionheir is mafia, I've made a verifiable enemy with his family, if he is not, I've made a verifable enemy of the town. It's that simple. Either way, there will be numerous players who want me dead. Already people who were willing to give me the benefit of the doubt are starting to waver.

I've shot my ammo on this lynch. I don't have the credibility or influence to continue whatever it is that I am doing if it is malevolent in nature. I've also made myself a probable investigation target.

there were questions:

Q1. Why was I so concerned with my safety on round one?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A1. After contacting a third of the Capo roster about possible protection groups, I felt that, I dunno, someone might take me out. Less leaders of the town cause equals more disorganization. Plus I tend to annoy the mafia in games. Case in point.

Q2. Regarding Shlin and The Stranger, what's up with that?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A2. The Stranger rubbed me the wrong way with his inital contact towards me, but I realized he was being so bold with his questioning, he was probably going to harm himself in the process. He made a number of people I was talking to a little nervous, because he was asking for role PMs and so forth. It wasn't a matter of them having anything to hide, (I don't think) it was a matter of being so forward in a game of secrecy, I suppose. I figured that if he were mafia, his actions would be self-destructive, and if he were townie (which I suspected) he would do a lot of good with his group organization. I cooperated with him, shared my role PM, and encouraged him to do his best for town.
There was also a situation where he was talking to me and someone else, and brought up which direction to move this game. I suspected that was his way of testing our townie loyalties, and I even told him so. It is a good move.

Shlin contacted me about The Stranger and I told him all the contact I had with him to-date, up front and honestly. I also suggested I thought he was a townie trying to do some good.

Bottom line, I've spoken with a lot of people this game, and it's perfectly natural to question that behavior and ask why I was contacting them. I'm sure many people will have similar stories. "Yeah, Pizzaguy contacted me too, and I have my own dramatic behind the scenes storyline to share, isn't that wierd?" not really. Par for the course with me. I'm already so very exposed and generally screwed to the wall, regardless of my honest intentions. If I get past round four I will be surprised. I'll accept the healthy paranoia for now, and answer your questions, but not everything I do equals me being a scumbag.

Q3. Why did you contact so many people?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A3. Many of the people in this game don't have oodles of friends to immediately hook up with, or are new, or joined the activities late and were left without a partner. That's a given. In order for these people to be semi-accounted for, and perhaps actually do some good, someone needs to go door to door, knocking, and asking if they would be interested in protection groups.

Do you think I didn't anticipate that would cause some questions on me? Of course. Don't really care.

A dozen or two townies with activities that can be somewhat verified, people getting partners they didn't have before, and making contacts which could turn out to be either mafioso or pro-townies, that is worth more than one townie's life.

What I'm doing gains me unwanted attention and makes me enemies. Before I head to the gallows or you find me in a gutter somewhere, I'll do what I can to gain information on who might be a scumbag, and bring them to you. I'll do what I can to pair up people who are having trouble finding partners. I'll give myself a headache and stay up until 7am trying to get things moving even when people drop out of their groups. Because I know I won't be at it for very long. TBH I've nearly had my fill already. It's a lot more work doing this than simply chuckling and finding other townies who might have delusions of grandeur and secret strategies to become the last one standing. I'm sure that is a lot of fun.

Even if I manage to do some good, plenty of players hate the strategy I am using, and may feel it wise to bump me off regardless, because they think it is a threat to the town in general. Ah well, those are the breaks. People do things their way, I do it my way, and there's room for both.

Spoilered for your convenience. I'll answer other questions.

[Splitpersonality]

This thread is making my head hurt.

[Greyblades]

What the... I forget to check up on this thread and its jumped 5 pages.

[TinCow]

Welcome to Capo.

[FactionHeir]

ATPG, there is a flaw in your reasoning really. You thought you were certain that I was mafia and therefore figured its a good gamble to take. A family without a made cannot kill and its unlikely it would gain recruits. Other mafia families wouldn't care much either way. Town would hail you as a hero and essentially give you innocent status, allowing you to direct its efforts to your liking.