How to fight a pike phalanx without another phalanx? Help!!!

[Raiuga]

I'm sorry if this topic has been asked before, but how do you fight pike phalanxes without other phalanxes? I want to know what tactics you use.

I mean, hoplites on hold while other infantry or cavalry go by the back can beat pike phalanxes, but I wanted to use other infantry to beat it.

I'm playing Hayasdan, with is a very diferent faction I usualy play (KH for the most part), so I wanted to use diferent tactics. I have my house rules, not using phalanx and not relying in horse archers to much.

The phalanx mode has a annoying thing that, when attacked by the back, if they are not busy fighting in the front, they turn back and form a wall spears like nothing was there, what brings us back to the beginning. i think they shouldn't be able to do that, but that's hardcoded (I wish that in EBII they won't do that )

Please help.

Sorry for my english has it is very rusty, and sorry for repeating the word "phalanx" over and over.
Thanks in advance.

[Andronikos]

It is time consuming micromanagement, but use some fast skirmishers or HAs or skirmisher cav to lure one phalanx unit and while it "chases" your unit, backcharge it, when it turns to fight the chargers, charge from opposite direction. If you don't want to use many HAs, this could be an alternative.

[kekailoa]

Double it up. Use a cheap line of infantry to distract and pin (large numbers of infantry, too, so that they don't die too quick), and then flank the phalanxes with your javelin armed infantry or heavier AP infantry. To only fight phalanxes with infantry is tough, though, and you should really invest in some AP or heavier infantry with the Hai.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

Phalanxes are easy to counter. The AI doesn't protect them well, just oumanoeuver them, covering your moves with cavalry, and charge them on flanks and rear, avoiding every frontal impact. If they turn, SO DO YOU. Use your speed to attack every phalanx with 2 units, leaving other phalanxes uningaged but unable to support each other. In this way, when a phalanx turn, you can pull back a unit and attack phalanx's rear with the other one.

The key for me is to shatter their initial formation. Use cavalry and light troops to provoke the enemy: if you manoeuver well they will broke the formation to chase your disturbing units.

[DaciaJC]

Break the enemy line into individual phalanxes. You said you're playing as Hayasdan - have some Sparabara (those levy Caucasian spearmen) on hand. Now, you don't need to order the "pinners" to attack the phalanx head-on. Maneuver carefully so that the final outcome is the phalanx coming to attack your levy pinners while they stand still in guard mode. Once the phalanx is engaged, charge from the rear with heavy troops. Your best bet is to recruit units with AP weapons (in your case, then, look for Cappadocian axemen and the like). Charge into the rear of the phalanx with your Kinsmen (family member bodyguards) and mop up.

[The General]

Phalanxes are easy to counter. The AI doesn't protect them well, just oumanoeuver them, covering your moves with cavalry, and charge them on flanks and rear, avoiding every frontal impact. If they turn, SO DO YOU. Use your speed to attack every phalanx with 2 units, leaving other phalanxes uningaged but unable to support each other. In this way, when a phalanx turn, you can pull back a unit and attack phalanx's rear with the other one.

The key for me is to shatter their initial formation. Use cavalry and light troops to provoke the enemy: if you manoeuver well they will broke the formation to chase your disturbing units.

QFT.

[Apázlinemjó]

It depends, what kind of phalanx you are facing. For example if they are levies, then you don't need to pin them that much, well timed heavy cavalry charges from the rear can rout them pretty fast if they don't have morale bonuses (from nearby enemy general and such).
If they are medium ones, well pin them down and encircle the formation with cheap skirmishers and watch the show.
If they are elites, you will need a good unit which can withstand the pikes for enough time till your heavy units eat the elites slowly.

A good tactic against "rotating" phalanx formation is to withdraw with the heavy units if they "aggro'ed" the enemy and wait till the "pinners" take the aggro back.

Edit: Ah well, Frontline and Mikhail were faster than me, lol.

[Raiuga]

Thanks for the reply's. Yes that's what I usually do when fighting AS army's

. To only fight phalanxes with infantry is tough, though, and you should really invest in some AP or heavier infantry with the Hai.

Yes I know . . I just think, and this is just my opinion so don't burn me in the stake, the phalanx is a little over powered. They where meant to form a wall of spears and to pin down the enemy, and they do just that that, but they kill many men. I mean, how lethal could the sarissa be? I can be wrong, but I just can't imagine a spear that long, being very effective at killing.

[kekailoa]

Thanks for the reply's. Yes that's what I usually do when fighting AS army's



Yes I know . . I just think, and this is just my opinion so don't burn me in the stake, the phalanx is a little over powered. They where meant to form a wall of spears and to pin down the enemy, and they do just that that, but they kill many men. I mean, how lethal could the sarissa be? I can be wrong, but I just can't imagine a spear that long, being very effective at killing.

The phalanx has been discussed as overpowered, and I don't know enough about the phalanx to refute or support either side of the argument. I actually find that the phalanxes are half-half, either sometimes really effective and slaughter hordes of men or merely kill ten percent of the enemy while just holding them in place. IMHO, they do have a little too much resistance to missiles from the front and sometimes from the rear.

[Tenebrous]

I have to ask though, how about when your outnumbered or even matched with full stacks?

I have yet to find a good strategy other than spreading them out, but it seems so unrealistic, and just taking way to much advantage of stupid ai, where a real army would never do so. Are there any good strategies for fighting a phalanx army when they outnumber you?

[Apázlinemjó]

I have to ask though, how about when your outnumbered or even matched with full stacks?

I have yet to find a good strategy other than spreading them out, but it seems so unrealistic, and just taking way to much advantage of stupid ai, where a real army would never do so. Are there any good strategies for fighting a phalanx army when they outnumber you?

Then micromanaging all of your units is vital. Break up the enemy's line with diversions and attack the little groups one by one with your remaining troops. Of course if you are outnumbered and outclassed with elites, then the only real option is to retreat, if you can.

[miotas]

I have to ask though, how about when your outnumbered or even matched with full stacks?

I have yet to find a good strategy other than spreading them out, but it seems so unrealistic, and just taking way to much advantage of stupid ai, where a real army would never do so. Are there any good strategies for fighting a phalanx army when they outnumber you?

Spread your lines as thin as possible and mass most of your infantry on the one flank, then once the lines engage send your flanking infantry around and roll up the enemy lines.

[vartan]

I have to ask though, how about when your outnumbered or even matched with full stacks?

I have yet to find a good strategy other than spreading them out, but it seems so unrealistic, and just taking way to much advantage of stupid ai, where a real army would never do so. Are there any good strategies for fighting a phalanx army when they outnumber you?

I remember during the tourney, people would just avoid the phalanx, and aim for your flanks. Your phalanxes would be useless. They only engaged your phalanx with their own phalanx, if they had it.

[king of thracia]

1. Refuse contact
2. Isolate phalanx
3. Pour javelins and arrows into the back
4. Simultaneous destruction

[fleaza]

you cowards! pluck up some courage and smash those phalanx from the front! i swear, the hai bodyguards are so incredibly powerful. sometimes i feel like charging the phalanx from the front. when i do do it i take more damage obviously but its still quite heroic.

[Knight of Ne]

you cowards! pluck up some courage and smash those phalanx from the front! i swear, the hai bodyguards are so incredibly powerful. sometimes i feel like charging the phalanx from the front. when i do do it i take more damage obviously but its still quite heroic.

I tend to find that this strategy, although heroic, tends to get my FM's killed very quickly. (And sods law dictates that it will be your good FM's that bite the dust.)

I tend to find that fast moving infantry are good for fighting phalanxes, if you can get a phalanx to chase them you can turn a phalanx and expose those juicy rears to cavalry or archers. Albeit this does depend on getting the stupid ai to chase you.

When outnumbered i try to outmanouvre the phalanx and engage all but the phalanxes, which (if all goes well) will leave the phalanxes with no support and vulnerable to flank and rear charges.

p.s. None of these tactics are garenteed to work well, if at all sometimes.
Knight of Ne