A letter to my congressional representative on medical marijuana

[AlexanderSextus]

Lung damage? Lung Cancer?

There has never been a case of Lung Cancer attributed directly to marijuana alone. THC has also been shown to have a type of Anti-Cancer effect!

So you're all alchoholics. Honestly, I have never blacked out, and I don't know many people it happens to. Anyway, it's not the same as being on anti-psychotic meds for the rest of your life, is it?

This does not happen to most people

No, it's the long term damage that matters.

of which there is practically none....

You are certain of this? You have proof that those "minimal" quantities are not effective?

I am certain of this by my own personal experience as well as research.

If you truly believe alchohol is more dangerous, work to have it banned. I won't complain too much if you pass it into law. Actually, I won't complain at all.

No one agrees that banning Alcohol is a good idea. You want to create MORE Al Capones?

Consequently, that is what we are doing with Marijuana now...

[Vladimir]

Oh yes, the Al Capone argument. The only ways to eliminate crime and crime bosses are 1) Eliminate all laws, and B) Eliminate all people.

Al Capone=Hitler=Godwin

[drone]

What's this:

Schedule I to Schedule III

Please, could you explain me'

There are 5 schedules (or classifications) in the Controlled Substances Act here in the US. IIRC, Schedule I drugs are banned, and deemed to have no medical use and a high potential for abuse. Heroin, E, shrooms, acid, etc. Schedule II drugs are available through tightly monitored prescriptions/medical use. These include your high-test painkillers like morphine and percocet, plus other potentially dangerous drugs like cocaine and PCP which have a medical use. Schedule III and IV drugs are lower-test painkillers like Vicodin, antidepressants, Valium, etc, available through prescription. Schedule V includes cough syrups with small amounts of codeine, no prescription necessary but purchases are recorded.

What DivA is proposing to his congresscritter is not a complete legalization, but just the recognition that pot has a medical use and should be controlled through prescriptions for that use. Not a ridiculous stance by any means. I'm not sure how this would change enforcement and punishment for sale/possession outside the auspices of a doctor's prescription, I would assume instead of jack-booted thugs breaking your door down they just knock.

[AlexanderSextus]

The only ways to eliminate crime and crime bosses are 1) Eliminate all laws,

Noooooooooo... there is a basic legal theory here. As long as you do not infringe on another person's civil rights and/or cause them any harm, you should be able to use any drug you want. What to do when the drugs cause harm to a person is a public health issue and not a criminal law issue.

They made alcohol illegal and that created Al Capone and only forced the market underground as the demand for alcohol not only remained, it increased upon prohibition. Making Alcohol illegal once again, would be EVEN WORSE, than prohibition in the 20's.

60% of all drug cartel profits are from Marijuana, just as the majority of profit for organized crime in the 20's was illegal alcohol.

The fact that Marijuana is illegal is currently creating "Al Capones" and "Pablo Escobars" across the globe.

"Eliminate all laws" as you put it would be ludicrous because we would not be able to deal with cases involving injured parties and/or disputes in Equity... For example, under a purely common law stance on Cannabis, If one were to smoke marijuana, that would be fine, but if a person then got behind the wheel of a vehicle they would then be in possession of a Lethal Weapon while under the influence and that person should be prosecuted.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Noooooooooo... there is a basic legal theory here. As long as you do not infringe on another person's civil rights and/or cause them any harm, you should be able to use any drug you want. What to do when the drugs cause harm to a person is a public health issue and not a criminal law issue.

They made alcohol illegal and that created Al Capone and only forced the market underground as the demand for alcohol not only remained, it increased upon prohibition. Making Alcohol illegal once again, would be EVEN WORSE, than prohibition in the 20's.

60% of all drug cartel profits are from Marijuana, just as the majority of profit for organized crime in the 20's was illegal alcohol.

The fact that Marijuana is illegal is currently creating "Al Capones" and "Pablo Escobars" across the globe.

"Eliminate all laws" as you put it would be ludicrous because we would not be able to deal with cases involving injured parties and/or disputes in Equity... For example, under a purely common law stance on Cannabis, If one were to smoke marijuana, that would be fine, but if a person then got behind the wheel of a vehicle they would then be in possession of a Lethal Weapon while under the influence and that person should be prosecuted.

In the UK most Pot seems to be grown by spotty, fat, lazy slobs. Very little is actually imported, I suspect. After all, what would be the point when Dave down the road grows it in his shed.

Maybe it's different in the US, but here I don't think Pot is really huge business.

[Idaho]

In the UK most Pot seems to be grown by spotty, fat, lazy slobs. Very little is actually imported, I suspect. After all, what would be the point when Dave down the road grows it in his shed.

Maybe it's different in the US, but here I don't think Pot is really huge business.

To the US posters: The UK has, for the last 3 years or so, experienced a media offensive greater than the 'reefer madness' nonsense of 1950's USA. This seems to have been orchestrated by some very well connected and well organised (but entirely misguided) campaigners.

Sorry Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla - but your replies show that you know absolutely nothing about the UK cannabis market, or about the drug itself. You seem to be informed only by the media frenzy.

Cannabis can trigger psychosis in rare occasions - alcohol increases your chance of psychosis by 400%. Making it/keeping it illegal makes no difference to levels of consumption. All it does is guarantee a profitable black market run by gangs (spotty fat lazy slobs? Where did you get that nonsense from?). The market is worth billions a year. Also the quick grown, poorly dried and cured product tends to be much more edgy and paranoid than well grown weed.

Making drugs illegal is about moral panic, and nothing to do with sensible law-making.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

To the US posters: The UK has, for the last 3 years or so, experienced a media offensive greater than the 'reefer madness' nonsense of 1950's USA. This seems to have been orchestrated by some very well connected and well organised (but entirely misguided) campaigners.

Sorry Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla - but your replies show that you know absolutely nothing about the UK cannabis market, or about the drug itself. You seem to be informed only by the media frenzy.

Cannabis can trigger psychosis in rare occasions - alcohol increases your chance of psychosis by 400%. Making it/keeping it illegal makes no difference to levels of consumption. All it does is guarantee a profitable black market run by gangs (spotty fat lazy slobs? Where did you get that nonsense from?). The market is worth billions a year. Also the quick grown, poorly dried and cured product tends to be much more edgy and paranoid than well grown weed.

Making drugs illegal is about moral panic, and nothing to do with sensible law-making.

Well, all the dealers I've ever met are fat spotty slobs.

[Fragony]

Very little is actually imported, I suspect.

Wrong, don't forget about the hash, only natives smoke weed.

[Ice]

Well, all the dealers I've ever met are fat spotty slobs.

That's great. You assume all dealers are fat lazy dealers from the select few you have met.

This nonsense is still what drives this idiotic "reefer madness" crap Idaho refers to.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That's great. You assume all dealers are fat lazy dealers from the select few you have met.

This nonsense is still what drives this idiotic "reefer madness" crap Idaho refers to.

Hey, sorry I've only met a dozen or so.

In any case, I have yet to see any evidence presented here that Cannabis is a positive thing. Right now, this reads like a bunch of guys who smoke the stuff and want it legalised so they can do it in public. Not a single source has been presented to actually refute the claim that Cannabis can cause a psychotic break. The claim that alchohol makes a break 400% more likely has not been supported, and the only positive stuff has been claims along the lines of, "hey, we're more responsible than drinkers anyway."

[Ice]

Hey, sorry I've only met a dozen or so.

In any case, I have yet to see any evidence presented here that Cannabis is a positive thing. Right now, this reads like a bunch of guys who smoke the stuff and want it legalised so they can do it in public. Not a single source has been presented to actually refute the claim that Cannabis can cause a psychotic break. The claim that alchohol makes a break 400% more likely has not been supported, and the only positive stuff has been claims along the lines of, "hey, we're more responsible than drinkers anyway."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Does Cannabis Cause Psychosis? #
There are several distinct types of "causes": necessary, sufficient, and component. A necessary cause is one that must be present before the result can occur. A sufficient cause is one that is, by itself, enough to cause the result. A component cause is one that is part of a "constellation" of causes that work together to bring about a result.

All of the recent research into this issue has found that cannabis is neither necessary nor sufficient to cause schizophrenia by itself.5 Rather, it is most likely a component factor when combined with a variety of other potential issues such as genetic pre-disposition or difficult childhood. Cannabis use, along with its attendant lifestyle and subculture, probably worsens symptoms in some of those vulnerable to psychotic disorders. The same is commonly said of the psychedelics such as LSD or psilocybin. As we don't know what causes schizophrenia, determining how important a factor cannabis use is cannot be determined.

Cannabis use could be a precipitating component in several ways. Heavy cannabis use may worsen certain coping mechanisms and weaken familial or social support through social disapproval. Fear of legal problems could cause anxiety and paranoid feelings; actual legal problems could damage self-esteem, damage hopes for life goals, or cause serious life problems. Cannabis intoxication can lower inhibitions and self control, worsen some symptoms to the point of dysfunction, or be part of a lifestyle that involves irregular sleep or other instability. It is easy to imagine that the effects of frequent or high dose cannabis intoxication could exacerbate these underlying instabilities and lead to increased paranoia and delusions.

Hundreds of papers have been published in the last few years looking at the very popular issue of whether cannabis causes psychosis. This issue has received the international attention of media, governments, researchers, and the general public, all looking for answers. Yet we are still sorting through cluttered fields of data. The main anchor point in the noise is that there is a near consensus that cannabis use and psychotic disorders are correlated, but the nature of the relationship is still far from clear.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi..._health3.shtml

[AlexanderSextus]

Hey, sorry I've only met a dozen or so.

In any case, I have yet to see any evidence presented here that Cannabis is a positive thing. Right now, this reads like a bunch of guys who smoke the stuff and want it legalised so they can do it in public. Not a single source has been presented to actually refute the claim that Cannabis can cause a psychotic break. The claim that alchohol makes a break 400% more likely has not been supported, and the only positive stuff has been claims along the lines of, "hey, we're more responsible than drinkers anyway."

I posted a really long article refuting the claim that it causes psychosis.

Once again, did you just tl;dr it?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I posted a really long article refuting the claim that it causes psychosis.

Once again, did you just tl;dr it?

The one where the boys at Kings demonstrated a link and then the rest of the article tried to dance around that, and it ended with a totally subjective claim that Cannabis users are more responsible than drinkers?

[AlexanderSextus]

The one where the boys at Kings demonstrated a link and then the rest of the article tried to dance around that, and it ended with a totally subjective claim that Cannabis users are more responsible than drinkers?

Most recently, a large-scale study by investigators at London's Institute of Psychiatry reported that those patients diagnosed with schizophrenia who had previously used cannabis did not demonstrate exacerbated symptoms of the illness compared to age-adjusted controls who had not used cannabis. "This [finding] argues against a distinct schizophrenia-like psychosis caused by cannabis," they concluded.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Most recently, a large-scale study by investigators at London's Institute of Psychiatry reported that those patients diagnosed with schizophrenia who had previously used cannabis did not demonstrate exacerbated symptoms of the illness compared to age-adjusted controls who had not used cannabis. "This [finding] argues against a distinct schizophrenia-like psychosis caused by cannabis," they concluded.

All that demonstrates is that they cannot link Cannabis to a specific form of the disease.

"Investigators in the study did not address whether cannabis consumers had greater odds of contracting schizophrenia when compared to otherwise matched controls who did not have a history of cannabis use. However, a 2006 review by Britain's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) previously concluded, "For individuals, the current evidence suggests, at worst, that using cannabis increases lifetime risk of developing schizophrenia by one percent." 13"

Selective reading will not prove your point. The next paragraph goes on to suggest that until the linkage can bee disproven the substance should be controlled. From my point of view, it might as well remain illegal in that case.

[Tratorix]

All that demonstrates is that they cannot link Cannabis to a specific form of the disease.

"Investigators in the study did not address whether cannabis consumers had greater odds of contracting schizophrenia when compared to otherwise matched controls who did not have a history of cannabis use. However, a 2006 review by Britain's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD) previously concluded, "For individuals, the current evidence suggests, at worst, that using cannabis increases lifetime risk of developing schizophrenia by one percent." 13"

Selective reading will not prove your point. The next paragraph goes on to suggest that until the linkage can bee disproven the substance should be controlled. From my point of view, it might as well remain illegal in that case.

You're right. If we can't conclusively, without a doubt prove something doesn't cause schizophrenia, it should be illegal.

[Papewaio]

Don't you remove the smoke caused carcinogens by making it into butter?

[Caius]

Figures for THC-related traffic fatalities are elusive, especially since alcohol is almost always present in the blood as well, and since the numbers of "marijuana-only" traffic fatalities are so small.

Its like saying "How many people of Flu have died", few people die of Flu, they die of something else.

[Ice]

Don't you remove the smoke caused carcinogens by making it into butter?

or simmering it in vegtable oil... or vaporizing it... there are many ways

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You're right. If we can't conclusively, without a doubt prove something doesn't cause schizophrenia, it should be illegal.

Look, I'm not screaming "reefer madness", but this whole "It's safe Guv, honest!" routine winds me up. Currently it's illegal, the jury is out on how dangerous it is, so it's going to stay illegal for the forseeable.

[Ice]

Look, I'm not screaming "reefer madness", but this whole "It's safe Guv, honest!" routine winds me up. Currently it's illegal, the jury is out on how dangerous it is, so it's going to stay illegal for the forseeable.

I disagree. Slowly, but surely, medical marijuana is being legalized in many states here in the US, while many states also are decriminalizing it along with other countries. It's a slow process, but your much hated herb will eventually be legal in my lifetime. I'll smoke an extra large blunt to spite you when the time comes.

[AlexanderSextus]

I disagree. Slowly, but surely, medical marijuana is being legalized in many states here in the US, while many states also are decriminalizing it along with other countries. It's a slow process, but your much hated herb will eventually be legal in my lifetime. I'll smoke an extra large blunt to spite you when the time comes.

SECONDED

[AlexanderSextus]

Quite literally, alcohol is an intoxicant; cannabis is not.

The word intoxicant is derived from the Latin noun, toxicum, meaning: “a poison.” It’s an appropriate description for booze. Alcohol is toxic to healthy cells and organs, a side-effect that results in some 35,000 deaths per year. Ethanol, the psychoactive ingredient in booze, is carcinogenic following its initial metabolization, which is why even moderate drinking is positively associated with increased incidences of various types of cancer. Heavy alcohol consumption can depress the central nervous system — inducing unconsciousness, coma, and death — and is strongly associated with increased risks of injury (Booze plays a role in about 41,000 fatal accidents per year, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control.) and acts of violence. In fact, according to the federal Bureau of Justice Crime Statistics, alcohol consumption plays a role in approximately one million violent crimes annually.

By contrast, the active compounds in marijuana, known as cannabinoids, are remarkably non-toxic and actually mimic chemicals naturally produced by the body, so-called endocannabinoids, that are vital for maintaining one’s proper health. Unlike alcohol, marijuana is incapable of causing fatal overdose — cannabinoids do not act upon the brain stem — and its use is inversely associated with aggression and injury. Finally, lifetime use of cannabis is not associated with increased risk of mortality or various types of cancer — including lung cancer — and may even reduce such risk.

[AlexanderSextus]

Look, I'm not screaming "reefer madness", but this whole "It's safe Guv, honest!" routine winds me up. Currently it's illegal, the jury is out on how dangerous it is, so it's going to stay illegal for the forseeable.

i have stated that it is not harmless, this is hardly any reason to keep it illegal however.

[Tuuvi]

While I am not a user, I used to believe in the legalization of marijuana, mostly because of the huge number of deaths and corruption that have resulted in banning it. However an officer of the DEA once came and gave a presentation in my U.S government class in high school and he made an interesting point. Marijuana growers are now producing plants with concentrations of THC never seen before. According to the DEA officer, those levels were so high that someone who smoked the plant wouldn't even be able to function. If the government does legalize marijuana, it will most likely place some sort of limit on the levels of THC allowed in the plant. Drug cartels will then resort to selling marijuana that is above the legal limit, so basically the black market for marijuana will never disappear. The only way to completely eradicate the black market for marijuana would be to legalize it without restriction. Because of the nature of U.S politics, this will never happen because no bill will be able to get through congress without some sort of concession/compromise made to anti-marijuana groups.

Personally I believe the massive amounts of murders committed by drug dealers is the ONLY reason for legalizing it. While I agree that the negative side effects of marijuana have been blown out of proportion, I've seen what it does to the people who use it and I hate it. Pot probably won't kill you or make you go crazy, but it will suck your life away and leave you with no freedom.

[Tratorix]

Personally I believe the massive amounts of murders committed by drug dealers is the ONLY reason for legalizing it. While I agree that the negative side effects of marijuana have been blown out of proportion, I've seen what it does to the people who use it and I hate it. Pot probably won't kill you or make you go crazy, but it will suck your life away and leave you with no freedom.

Marijuana does not have addictive properties. People who spend all their time doing nothing but smoking weed and screw up their life because of it are people with no self control. If it wasn't weed, it would be cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, cocaine, etc.

[Samurai Waki]

good on you Divinus, the DA's Office that I've been interning at has been trying to push Legislation for the Decriminalization of Cannabis, the amount of cases we're handed every year to prosecute on minor possession charges is just staggering, and costing the state a god awful amount of money.

[AlexanderSextus]

Marijuana growers are now producing plants with concentrations of THC never seen before.

OK? So? if you cant overdose on THC then this does not matter. If i have to smoke a whole jont/blunt/bowl to be stuck to my couch then if i had a joint/blunt/bowl of the superweed you are talking about then i would just not smoke as much of it, and save the rest for later.

[Husar]

A lot of those bad symptoms only come into play when:

[...]
B. You smoke weed somewhat regularly, and in a particular session you smoke more than you usually would, or you are smoking higher quality stuff then you are used to.
[...]

I disagree. Slowly, but surely, medical marijuana is being legalized in many states here in the US, while many states also are decriminalizing it along with other countries. It's a slow process, but your much hated herb will eventually be legal in my lifetime. I'll smoke an extra large blunt to spite you when the time comes.

SECONDED

So much about the responsible smokers?

[AlexanderSextus]

So much about the responsible smokers?

you can smoke a crapload of weed and be responsible.

Being Irresponsible would entail something like getting really high and then going for a drive or something of that nature.

And as far as the "bad symptoms" i talked about, some people dont get them at all.

I know I dont. Maybe a little paranoia now and then but it's usually along the line of:

"*hears weird noise* what the is that?!?! oh, its just two cats fighting outside. Weird, that shouldn't have startled me so much. Phew! *puffs blunt*"

And who says Ice is gonna smoke the WHOLE extra large blunt anyway?