Well, you have the old ironguards, but you also have the new hotness.

Old ironguards. (points at you) ------->

New hotness. (points at me) -------->



That said, I don't hang around in the backroom very often. It always seems to be the same intractable arguments rehashed monthly, with no one switching sides. If I want to argue until I'm blue in the face and still fail, I'll play a mafia game and at least enjoy it.