Biblical Wars?

[thecellarlife]

Hey, I've looked around and I haven't seen any mods on this particular subject.

I'd like to see a mod of it using EB as it's source, as in 1500BC around that time in the fertile crescent with the different tribes of Israel, Egypt, and the conflicts that are mentioned in the Bible.

This would obviously be a lot of myth mixed with what facts they have about the time period, but I could see it being a very good mod if done right. Anyone know of anything like this?

[IrishHitman]

You do realise the Bible is a really REALLY unreliable source, right?

[Azathoth]

Huh? EB has a couple of quotes from the Bible, how could you use it as a source?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

The Bible is not a history book, ho paidiskos. It was written by men that had a message to deliver, and not to give an exact account of what has happened.

[Azathoth]

The Bible is not a history book, ho paidiskos. It was written by men that had a message to deliver, and not to give an exact account of what has happened.

Troy:Total War was fun for a couple days...

[thecellarlife]

I wasn't suggesting it would be all that historically accurate, but the time period could be an interesting one, taking what we do know of it, and using the biblical information as a part myth/part historic mod.

I'm suggesting it would be interesting, the focus would not be as much on historical accuracy, as there are some interesting stories in the myths the bible presents that will not fit with the actual history.

What I meant by EB as a source was the coding and setup of the actual game, not the history aspects of it. EB plays much better as a game than the vanilla total war.

Just a suggestion, nothing to get so worked up about.

[Ludens]

You are going to have to be more specific about this. What do you mean with using the coding and set-up of EB? If I understand you correctly, you are intending to create something far more casual and less realistic than EB, in a different setting and with a different focus, so what part of EB would fit in here?

[General Aetius]

You do realise the Bible is a really REALLY unreliable source, right?

I don't want to cause trouble here. But YOU do realise the Bible has sometimes been more accurate and reliable than some historians and archaeologists have.

General Aetius

[Hax]

Let's leave religion out of this, please. It won't lead to any good.

[General Aetius]

Let's leave religion out of this, please. It won't lead to any good.

Thank you

General Aetius

[IrishHitman]

I don't want to cause trouble here. But YOU do realise the Bible has sometimes been more accurate and reliable than some historians and archaeologists have.

General Aetius

No, because that's BS....

[antisocialmunky]

Too late, Aetius. Flee!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hey, I've looked around and I haven't seen any mods on this particular subject.

I'd like to see a mod of it using EB as it's source, as in 1500BC around that time in the fertile crescent with the different tribes of Israel, Egypt, and the conflicts that are mentioned in the Bible.

This would obviously be a lot of myth mixed with what facts they have about the time period, but I could see it being a very good mod if done right. Anyone know of anything like this?

I'm afraid there's far too little good information to corroborate the Biblical account until the Jews were freed by Cyrus the Great in the 6th Century BC.

Just for the record guys, both the Iliad and the Pentateuch can by surprisingly accurate at times.

So keep it civil, debates on religion can go in the Backroom.

[General Aetius]

No, because that's BS....

Wrong. here are a few examples where the Bible's recordings were correct:

The pool of Siloam, which was always believed to not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Siloam

Nineveh. Archaeologist originally thought that the Bible had exaggerated Nineveh's size. But excavations show that Nineveh could easily support a population of 100,000-150,000.

...exceedingly great city of three days' journey... Jonah 3:3

and

...more than sixscore thousands (120,000)... Jonah 3:11

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineveh

The Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey.

It was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20:1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls. What is more, fragments of a stela memorializing the victory were found at Ashdod itself.

General Aetius

[IrishHitman]

Wrong. here are a few examples where the Bible's recordings were correct:

The pool of Siloam, which was always believed to not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pool_of_Siloam

Nineveh. Archaeologist originally thought that the Bible had exaggerated Nineveh's size. But excavations show that Nineveh could easily support a population of 100,000-150,000.

and


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineveh

The Hittites were once thought to be a Biblical legend, until their capital and records were discovered at Bogazkoy, Turkey.

It was once claimed there was no Assyrian king named Sargon as recorded in Isaiah 20:1, because this name was not known in any other record. Then, Sargon's palace was discovered in Khorsabad, Iraq. The very event mentioned in Isaiah 20, his capture of Ashdod, was recorded on the palace walls. What is more, fragments of a stela memorializing the victory were found at Ashdod itself.

General Aetius

PAST tense Aetius.

The fact historians didn't believe the Bible before other sources became available is proof that they see it as vastly unreliable.

For instance, it claimed Babylon was destroyed, and that it would never again exist.
This was LONG before Alexander happened to march into the city that was supposedly never to exist again....

[Whatever Scortamareva]

I suppose you'd have to make Chariots siege equipment. It'd get a bit tedious having to ride them around each settlement until the walls fall down though.

Also

Too late, Aetius. Flee!

made me chuckle.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

PAST tense Aetius.

The fact historians didn't believe the Bible before other sources became available is proof that they see it as vastly unreliable.

For instance, it claimed Babylon was destroyed, and that it would never again exist.
This was LONG before Alexander happened to march into the city that was supposedly never to exist again....

Actually, a lot of historians did believe it; they just didn't believe all of it. This is all tied in with the Enlightenment.

Anyway, Babylon never did rise again, and was totally subdued by the Persians. Alexander marched into a Persian city, not a Babylonian one. In fact, those preophecies are so accurate they are often considered to be falsified.

[antisocialmunky]

Eh, I didn't expect that from a EB member. You guys are usually pretty skeptical about everything(rightly so if you're going to go by the sparse primary source and subjective secondary sources).

[Megas Methuselah]

Eh, I didn't expect that from a EB member. You guys are usually pretty skeptical about everything(rightly so if you're going to go by the sparse primary source and subjective secondary sources).

Hey, what about me? I support you too, bro. The Bible (at least, much of the Old Testament) could be taken as seriously as one might take the Illiad: a history book buried under a layer of... exaggerations.

IrishHitman is only being bitter here, and letting anger lead him. It is often best to be led by a clear and sober mind.

[Ludens]

Do not add more fuel to the fire, please.

Keep it civil, and stay respectful of another's opinion.

[IrishHitman]

Actually, a lot of historians did believe it; they just didn't believe all of it. This is all tied in with the Enlightenment.

Anyway, Babylon never did rise again, and was totally subdued by the Persians. Alexander marched into a Persian city, not a Babylonian one. In fact, those preophecies are so accurate they are often considered to be falsified.

The Scripture describes the city never again being POPULATED, never mind being prominent...

[Moros]

Look everybody knows the bible isn't historiography. However that doesn't mean it doesn't have interesting things to tell a historian.

[antisocialmunky]

Well, it was a slow decline that lasted for the better part of half a millenium until the priests of Bel that were still chillin out there left because it kept getting run over in invasions in the 1st century CE.

No one has been inhabiting it as a city since then except for that US Military base that's slowly destroying the ruins.

[vartan]

No one has been inhabiting it as a city since then except for that US Military base that's slowly destroying the ruins.

That's too bad, but sure explains the outrage I hear so closely!

[thecellarlife]

Wow, did not expect so many comments, and for this to degrade into an argument between (some of) you guys. The bible does have a place in history, and that is why I wished to present the idea of that time period used with this game. I think you'd all enjoy it if the proper work was done to portray it as accurately as possible. Unfortunately I am unable to make the mod, but if some of you are willing to try, I'd give as much help as I could.

If you want to try, start gathering the history and maybe someone will code it. Thanks for the responses, it seems like this mod has more interest than I first thought.

[Andronikos]

I think it would be an interesting submod. There are other more reliable sources about that era and those could be used. But it would require a team of researchers, modellers, script writers...

BTW, I have read a book about about Hittites recently and the first people who discovered them took info from the Bible which told about "Heteans" (not sure about English version, original is Hittim). I wouldn't underestimate any religious book or mythology.

[Kikaz]

I already wanna see it!
This will be difficult to create, as a lot of people disagree over the facts; however, I do think you can nail down more than enough to make a pretty historically accurate mod.

[Ariovistus Maximus]

You know, this all could have been solved without argument...

"Canaan: Total War" is under development on the TWC.

There ya go.