MTW=no longer supported

**gollum** · 10-05-2009, 10:34

Hello Caravel, hello Martok, hello MTWers and Mainhallers,
hope you are all doing fine, its been a while.

As most of you know well, MTW has got quite some issues with newer pcs and in particular certain series of newer graphics cards. It has been long speculated that CA could perhaps give a few hours to fix the problem and even a thread that requested the code of the game was publicly released so the community could attempt to fix that and other issues. At the same time the long silence of CA developers on all MTW forums regarding the issue was more than discouraging, despite the fact that MTW has quite some following for a game that old.

I am afraid that i stumbled upon a post in the .com that signifies conclusively (at least to my judgement) that there is not one in a billion that CA will do anything for MTW and its remaining fans.

You can find the post here;
http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/srepl...King-AAR-.html

WoCLancelot, the poster, is in all probability the admin of the well known MP site Clan Community Shield;
http://www.clancommunityshield.net/

and as such his word can be absolutely trusted, at least from my point of view.

This means what many of us already knew for quite sometime now; that MTW is left to die a slow and painful death to oblivion. Not only that, but as it is mentioned in the post the battle edition is being sold to this day with stickers that read "Vista Comptatible".

Not exactly a great way to go for such a great game, and not exactly the best treatment of a part of the original TW fanbase that was crucial in TW and CAs ascend.

**I of the Storm** · 10-05-2009, 12:52

good to see you back, gollum

It would be really great if it was truly abandonware, which would be more or less free. As it is now, it's just abandoned, yet still copyrighted software. That means the owner doesn't want to do anything about it anymore, yet noone else is allowed to...

**caravel** · 10-05-2009, 14:11

Welcome back gollum,

"Abandonware" is a loose term. In general, just because a game is not patched it does not make it abandonware. For a game to fit the very loose definition of abandonware it must be no longer sold or supported or maybe it's ownership or trademarks are unclear or in dispute. Even then the "abandonware" term is still very close to software piracy. None of this fits MTW so I would feel pretty safe in the assumption that it is not abandonware by any definition.

As to the main issue here and the sources, I would say that they can be discounted and you would still have enough evidence to prove that CA are not going to support or further develop the first engine - even to fix it to run on newer hardware. Actions speak louder than words and CA are known for posting the usual marketing spiel in the forum that represents the newest title. This leaves STW and MTW at the bottom of the pile. CA do not post in the RTW forums so there is no chance whatsoever of their posting here and addressing this issue. It is likely true though that there are none at CA that are familiar with the STW/MTW source code.

The only real solution (to our problems) is if CA open source the game (this was discussed in another thread), but that won't happen either. Open sourcing the game would allow open source devlopers to fix and improve the game and also open it up to modders and alternative platforms such as Linux and MacOS. This would be the answer to all our prayers but is sadly very unlikely to occur because CA/SEGA have no real commercial reason to do so.

**gollum** · 10-05-2009, 14:50

Originally posted by I of the Storm and Asai Nagamasa

good to see you back, gollum

Welcome back gollum,

Thank you, its good to be back.

Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa

"Abandonware" is a loose term. In general, just because a game is not patched it does not make it abandonware. For a game to fit the very loose definition of abandonware it must be no longer sold or supported or maybe it's ownership or trademarks are unclear or in dispute. Even then the "abandonware" term is still very close to software piracy. None of this fits MTW so I would feel pretty safe in the assumption that it is not abandonware by any definition.

Thanks, thats good to know. In fact i meant to use the term loosely myself to simply and quickly pass over the content of the OP from the title. It seems i failed though as i got the wrong term AND managed to mispell it

Please moderators feel free to edit the thread title to MTW=Abandoned, if you wish and can.

Originally posted by Asai Nagamasa

As to the main issue here and the sources, I would say that they can be discounted and you would still have enough evidence to prove that CA are not going to support or further develop the first engine - even to fix it to run on newer hardware. Actions speak louder than words and CA are known for posting the usual marketing spiel in the forum that represents the newest title. This leaves STW and MTW at the bottom of the pile. CA do not post in the RTW forums so there is no chance whatsoever of their posting here and addressing this issue. It is likely true though that there are none at CA that are familiar with the STW/MTW source code.

The only real solution (to our problems) is if CA open source the game (this was discussed in another thread), but that won't happen either. Open sourcing the game would allow open source devlopers to fix and improve the game and also open it up to modders and alternative platforms such as Linux and MacOS. This would be the answer to all our prayers but is sadly very unlikely to occur because CA/SEGA have no real commercial reason to do so.

No doubt - actually, as you know, the programmer of the original TW engine that worked on MTW has indeed left CA prior to the release of RTW. The purpose of the OP is to warn prospective customers of MTW/VI for what they are getting, and for existing fans what they are likely to face sooner or later in case they dont know, and since the games are still being sold and played they are people on both categories still around. If i had posted the whole thing as a speculation it may have been taken wrongly, but with the solid reference from the "horse's mouth" things are more legitimate and clear.

All this amazes me greatly because other companies "on the same boat" as CA have evolved completely differently and treat their releases, past and present, with far more respect.

For example Paradox's Crusader Kings released in 2004 has had continual patch support for the last 5 years (the latest patch came out a year ago), despite the fact that the game uses their older 2D engine. In addition they have released the source code to the public, while all alterations in patches and expansions are based on forum fanbase feedback.

Compare that to CA developers that upon the release of RTW were trying to convince many old time players that they were mad for pointing out the obvious shortcomings of RTW, some of which were defended as "features"(!).

Judging by Mike Simpson's recent blog, the "fine" tradition of CA communication to the fanbase continues uninterrupted and with due momentum

It seems that now CA agrees finally that the fanbase aint mad after all, its just that criticism endangers the ~~sales~~, sorry i meant quality of future TW games

**Puzz3D** · 10-06-2009, 02:04

It became clear during the RTW v1.2 beta (Nov 2005 - Jan 2006) that CA was no longer interested in maintaining the quality of the game play. That's not to say there were not individuals within CA who did want to maintain it, but the tide was against them.

**gollum** · 10-06-2009, 18:59

Thanks Puzz3D, that's good to know.

Some old threads in the Collosseum are quite sad. Certain developers were posting almost in a propagandistic tone with the clear ultimate goal to portray the change that RTW brought in a positive light or silence the negative posts - especially at the beginning, before the "new" fanbase found its way to the forums.

Thanks to the moderators for nicely changing the title.

**oz_wwjd** · 10-10-2009, 08:45

Indeed at one point I was willing to actually attempt to attempt to BUY the sourcecode from Ca,or open negioations to do so. The problem being that I was unsure of how to contact in order to start the proceedings,and in any case none of my e-mails to CA received any reponse whatsoever,which is frustrating,given the potienal of MTW,given the amount of fan-based support it still has.

**Vantek** · 10-17-2009, 17:39

Isn't it, you know... illegal to call a game Vista compatible when it's not?

How much money would they open the source code for?

EDIT: how unthinkable would it be that the MTW community *CREATES* an open source engine that runs on MTW textures, sprites, models etc? Kind of like happened with Total Annihilation ==> Spring?

**drone** · 10-18-2009, 01:59

MTW is compatible with Vista, it runs on my Vista laptop. The main problem is with the video drivers.

**oz_wwjd** · 10-18-2009, 07:28

Isn't it, you know... illegal to call a game Vista compatible when it's not?

That's still not compatible if it doesn't work with the drivers that come with Vista,which most people do expect.

How much money would they open the source code for?

That's just what we've been trying to find out,but no-one seems willing to discuss the issue,or I've sent multiple e-mails about this subject,all of which I've received no answer to.

**Knight of the Rose** · 10-19-2009, 14:41

Well, many games has some minimum system requirements that you should take into account before buying a game. This game has maximum system requirements now. That doesn't make it illigal to sell it to you. I have a newish laptop and plays M:TW like never before, much better load times than on my old system. So it works for some.

Things has improved (or so it seems to me) lately, but I can still remember games sold where on the back cover there was a total listing of all cards supported. The question that can be raised is wheather or not SEGA fullfills its obilgations to make you aware of the requirements.

/KotR