Preventing joycamptours - a piece of advice for mods

[Husar]

But, there is also an overwhelming feeling, in Germany an in its neighbours, that WWII was 200 years ago. Ancient history. My grandparents got over it already. As did Husar's. (Once they were released and returned from Siber

Well, I'm a bit sick of it always having to make me sad and cry, there are enough other reasons that make me sad and want to cry, if it gets too much I'll get depressions so I distance myself a bit from it, might make me look a bit hard at times but I prefer that over being depressed all the time, that doesn't help anyone either.

My grandmother came from eastern Prussia and doesn't like to talk about it, bit of a pity but I can understand and respect that, it was a horrible experience for her, no need to make her depressed either. Her husband died when I was one year old, I have no idea what he did during the war. My dad's family is dutch so they were certainly not in Siberia, most likely just going about their daily lives, his parents died long before I was born.

The typical problem with nation states is that I have to pay for Eastern Germany now after the Russians and Eastern Germans let it rot for 50 years and we even paid them to get it back. And on top of it, Louis told me, I have still to pay for something that an idiot, who wasn't even elected, decided in 1914.
On the other hand I view socialism and collectively helping the weak as something good though(to a certain reasonable extent), hypocrisy?

Now to somehow wind that back to the original topic, why would anyone get annoyed over this? If my grandpa had been a nazi, got shot and someone said it was right that he got shot, I would probably agree, just like I would not support my dad in or after murdering my mom or anyone's mom for that matter. If an old guy dies in prison because he was sentenced to 175 years and served only 25 of it, do you go and get his sons to imprison them for the remaining 150 years? If someone dies with a huge amount of debt do their kids have to pay for it? No? Then why does it work differently with nations and why do people get annoyed when someone calls their grandfather, or the grandfather of someone with the same passport a murderer? I personally find it somewhat irrational, but if you feel that way, as has been said, at least grow the bones to remove yourself from it and don't censor what others can say.

[Whacker]

Cronos, you're a very strange person...

This is the only conclusion that I've drawn from this thread.

It's real simple, if you ask me. If one can't take part in a debate without getting all wound up, don't participate and stay out of it. Don't feed the trolls. Don't give in to your anger, even if you can feel the hate flowing through you and your journey toward the Backroom is near complete.

[Beskar]

If someone dies with a huge amount of debt do their kids have to pay for it? No?

I have to admit, I am very glad those days have gone. Unfortunately this used to be the case and as you can imagine, it was very bad.

My opinion towards history is that you accept what happened and move on. Don't get stuck in the pass and don't repeat the worse aspects of the pass.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have to admit, I always wanted to be in a German History lesson. Over in the UK, I did the world wars almost non-stop from the age of 14 to the age of 19. Looking at all sorts of theories and historical ideas, from "Is Hitler simply the product of the German people?" to "Hitler did it all". I always wondered how they ever taught the subject over in Germany, because if it is handled in the wrong way, I could imagine a lot of resentment towards people or even a slight glorification and misinterpretation. Sorry, I am going off-topic here, if you like, I would love to talk about it more with you Husar/EMFM/others. Don't worry, it will be in a mature manner and won't be calling people murderers.

[pevergreen]

I could hate the Japanese for what they did to Darwin. But I don't.


Come here Beefy, I love you!

[Samurai Waki]

This is the perspective that I like. I as well could be angry with the Japanese for forcing my grandfather into imprisonment and a slow, wretched, and agonizing death. I may even be justified in my anger, however, I am not like my father, who had to live with the direct consequences, and so I can see the picture from a different angle. Without the atrocities of this war, I dare say that we would not have been able to see into looking glass, and know of what monstrocities we are capable of becoming. I am thankful that japan and germany exist as they do today, but I doubt it would have been so if they had not witnessed their own moral destruction.

[Husar]

This is the perspective that I like. I as well could be angry with the Japanese for forcing my grandfather into imprisonment and a slow, wretched, and agonizing death. I may even be justified in my anger, however, I am not like my father, who had to live with the direct consequences, and so I can see the picture from a different angle.

Not to forget the japanese you meet are most likely not the ones who did that to your father.

[pevergreen]

Not to forget the japanese you meet are most likely not the ones who did that to your father.

But it still weighs down on them.

Multiple times throughout his time here, Beefy has mentioned to me that he feels regret for what Japan did.

I am unsure of how serious he is, but he never mentioned it in a humorous way. I took him to be serious about it.


But most Australians are easy going compared to a lot of the world...

[Louis VI the Fat]

The typical problem with nation states is that I have to pay for Eastern Germany now after the Russians and Eastern Germans let it rot for 50 years and we even paid them to get it back. And on top of it, Louis told me, I have still to pay for something that an idiot, who wasn't even elected, decided in 1914.

We are all paying, Husar. Such is the tragedy of it all. It was for real, it all actually really happened. War isn't glorious, or a game. It is nasty, brutal, dehumanising.

For a fun fact, since 1918, 650 Frenchmen have died clearing up the explosives from WWI. These are only the professionals on duty, excluding all those farmers and passers-by. We are still clearing it up, we are still paying for it. Large tracts of land are still toxic, a wasteland. This is costly. The generations of crippled, amimed, otherwise unfit for labour owing to war have only just retired, they had to be paid for. We are all paying for the wars, still.

There is no price tag that can be put on the people that grew up orhans, on the lives lost, on the tears of the survivors. On the destroyed art, towns, centres of culture. Whole communities have been wiped out, towns have never been repopulated, to this day.

This, not some adolescent blame game, is the reason for my anger. I hate the denial, the culture of silence. Or the fascination 'but they were really cool, look at those hot uniforms!', where it is never quite clear where fascination ends and outright sympathy begins.




As for Japan - I have some issues with the way Japan treats its modern history. In particular, I have a problem with the portrayal of Japan as a victim of WWII and the 1930's. Japan endlessly explores Hiroshima, makes this the central event in their war experience. The narrative is that several countries had a war over recources in East Asia, which Japan then lost because the Americans were more brutal and committed the atrocity of Hiroshima. Silly Nancy Pelosi bought it hook, line and sinker and came dangerously close to making the US apologize to Japan for WWII.

But Japan has forgiven the world. They will even forgive those female sex slaves they put in rape and torture camps filthy prostitutues, as long as these hysterical women will just shut up.

It is all very disgraceful.

[Husar]

We are all paying, Husar. Such is the tragedy of it all. It was for real, it all actually really happened. War isn't glorious, or a game. It is nasty, brutal, dehumanising.

For a fun fact, since 1918, 650 Frenchmen have died clearing up the explosives from WWI. These are only the professionals on duty, excluding all those farmers and passers-by. We are still clearing it up, we are still paying for it. Large tracts of land are still toxic, a wasteland. This is costly. The generations of crippled, amimed, otherwise unfit for labour owing to war have only just retired, they had to be paid for. We are all paying for the wars, still.

There is no price tag that can be put on the people that grew up orhans, on the lives lost, on the tears of the survivors. On the destroyed art, towns, centres of culture. Whole communities have been wiped out, towns have never been repopulated, to this day.

Yes, that's a good point, still remains that Western Germany quite outdeveloped the East and now we pay to get them up to our standards, while that's generally a good thing, they should have been there anyway.

This, not some adolescent blame game, is the reason for my anger. I hate the denial, the culture of silence. Or the fascination 'but they were really cool, look at those hot uniforms!', where it is never quite clear where fascination ends and outright sympathy begins.

But Kant says you have to differentiate between Louis the Frenchman and Louis the human, in the same way I differentiate between Göring the murderer and Göring the man with a good taste in uniforms*. Not all people may make that distinction but I think it's important to teach them to do that then. A good taste in uniforms should not alter the sentence one gets in a court of law either. But then him being a murderer should also not force me to say he a bad taste in uniforms.
Nice uniforms and tanks are not an excuse for anything, yet they can be very fascinating in their own way.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

*I'm not sure who exactly chose the uniforms, I'm just using Göring here because he is one of the first who comes to mind.

[edyzmedieval]

What's a joycamptour anyway?

[drone]

What's a joycamptour anyway?

I've never heard the phrase either, I figured it was a Romanian thing. Guess not!

[Beskar]

It is .Org speak. Image Orwell's New Speak, but for the .Org. It is called "orgspeak".

They should sticky a list around here some where.

[Cronos Impera]

This thread isn't Oprah, its Orgah....so here are the jewels written by our wordsmiths.

writepol = moderators
joywrite = trolling
textual-assault=flaming
joywriter = troll
cameldung = ********,nonsense
gahspeak = spam/flaming when applied to banned people, brilliant comments when applied to the rest of the population
joycamptour = warning
joycampsitting = suspension of the account
joycampleaving = restoring an account
joycamper = suspended account
Balloon-worthy = an award or praise with or without value (depending upon intent)
BOLLOX = THE ONE WORD
a la moed = translation from french "served with Texas" 1) a thread in which the greatness of Texas or Texans is mentioned; 2) a ridiculously over-inflated opinion of one's self or rightness of one's argument.
yebut = pronounced yeah-but. The tendency of someone to find the negative and controversial (real or imagined) in even the most positive of discussions. The result is usually thread closure and examples of most, if not all, the joycamp words from the Orgah Newspeak Dictionary.
OPummm = noun, pronounced oh-pee-um. A thread with a title that tells you nothing about the topic.
Voice of Gah!d = an argument so absurd, the poster must be listening to a voice in his head, and it ain't the voice of logic or reason.
OrgSoc = Orgah Socialism
Noforumer = Banned Orgah
Minlove = Backroom
NoTruth = "Posted as is"
NewTruth = "Altered by writepol"
TediUS = A variation on the Godwin theme, it is the inevitable tendency of any thread to blame the United States for everything or to take a cheap shot at same for effect.
Texicitry - the tendency to always mention a certain state in one's post with utter disregard to the relevance of it to the topic being discussed.
Galloticitry - the ability to always mention a certain country in one's post and somehow make it seem relevant to the topic being discussed.
naughtigain = pronounced naw-ti-gan. 1) A noun referring to any recurring discussion or patron interaction that results in heated debate and will never yield a satisfactory result for either side. 2) A noun referring to any recurring discussion or patron interaction that results in heated debate and will never yield a satisfactory result for either side. 3) A noun referring to any recurring discussion or patron interaction that results in heated debate and will never yield a satisfactory result for either side.
Gregspeak - use of punnery
doublewrite - the paradoxal ability of making inconsistent posts, forgetting and remembering differing parts of it as the situation demands without being aware of it (I'd call this doublepost, but that's already a word in oldspeak)

[Cronos Impera]

So an OrgSoc announcement in the Watchtower should sound like:

Noforumer Tribesman gah-speaked Fragony in Ownpage. Voice of Gah'd nothingained baloon-worthy. He'll be joycampleaving next Big Bang.Tribesman unbellyfeels OrgSoc.

[Beskar]

What does "balloon-worthy" mean?

[Cronos Impera]

A praise with or without value.

To translate the phrase in English:

His sensless posts yealded no results, annoyed people and ware without value.