Faction strengths?

[vartan]

I'm pretty sure that secondary charge things has been discussed in modding forum (scriptorium or mod questions, I forgot) for some times... For example, if your cavalrymen has lance as primary, and mace for secondary, at first he'll use lance for charging, as intended, but when you order with alt r click on to fight with secondary, they'll use the secondary attack stats. And when you withdraw them from melee, but not enough time for them to grab their spears again (read: revert to animated lance graphics, as opposed to animated mace graphics... it need some transition time), and you order them to charge again, they'll show the "charging" note at their unit comments, but they won't use the primary charge value, instead they'll use the secondary.

You'll got secondary charge really working when you play M2TW, since the lance will be unavailable in longer times after switching to secondary, making your horsies must use secondary swords to charge when their lance regeneration time is not enough...

Any explanation why a secondary charge should be used instead of a primary one? The difference may be up to 40 attack points! And funny thing is, both are the exact same thing! They both charge with a spear! It is like saying a chair is both a chair and NOT a chair at the SAME TIME. I do not understand.

[antisocialmunky]

Nope. There is not good reason. Lances have AP and 40ish charge.

[Cute Wolf]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, contrary with their horsie riding comrades, infantry used teh secondary charge exclusively if available....

[Grade_A_Beef]

That explains why my Solduros and Hypaspistai units are so bloody useless......

I'm assuming it's possible to change the big longsword into the secondary rather than the primary in the EDU, right?

[Cute Wolf]

That explains why my Solduros and Hypaspistai units are so bloody useless......

I'm assuming it's possible to change the big longsword into the secondary rather than the primary in the EDU, right?

Nah, better deactivate their spears if you badly want them to become plain swordsmen units, by giving them empty secondary weapon line like this:

before:
;157
type greek infantry hypaspistai
dictionary greek_infantry_hypaspistai ; Hypaspistai
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Light_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_hypaspistai_massiloi_hoplitai, 30, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy
formation 1.2, 1.5, 2.4, 3, 4, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 12, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 17, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr light_spear
stat_pri_armour 14, 11, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -3
stat_mental 16, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 3250, 813, 60, 90, 3250
ownership macedon, romans_julii, thrace

after:
;157
type greek infantry hypaspistai
dictionary greek_infantry_hypaspistai ; Hypaspistai
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type Light_1
soldier hellenistic_infantry_hypaspistai_massiloi_hoplitai, 30, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_hellenic_officer
officer ebofficer_hellenic_standardbearer
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy
formation 1.2, 1.5, 2.4, 3, 4, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 12, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.225
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 14, 11, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -3
stat_mental 16, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 3250, 813, 60, 90, 3250
ownership macedon, romans_julii, thrace

[anubis88]

my Solduros and Hypaspistai units are so bloody useless......

Ahem... What?!?

[Cute Wolf]

Ahem... What?!?

Well, it looks like he want they to act like bloody infantry killers, not just elite horde-holders (spears kills more slowly than longswords ), but beware, when they lose their spears, they become extremely vulnerable to cavalries, so use them as melee anti infantry unit afterwards....

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Hypaspistai = bloody useless? Wow.