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Thread: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

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  1. #1
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    That is, their neighbours to the north:
    When you think of Canada, which qualities come to mind? The world's peacekeeper, the friendly nation, a liberal counterweight to the harsher pieties of its southern neighbour, decent, civilised, fair, well-governed? Think again. This country's government is now behaving with all the sophistication of a chimpanzee's tea party. So amazingly destructive has Canada become, and so insistent have my Canadian friends been that I weigh into this fight, that I've broken my self-imposed ban on flying and come to Toronto.

    So here I am, watching the astonishing spectacle of a beautiful, cultured nation turning itself into a corrupt petro-state. Canada is slipping down the development ladder, retreating from a complex, diverse economy towards dependence on a single primary resource, which happens to be the dirtiest commodity known to man. The price of this transition is the brutalisation of the country, and a government campaign against multilateralism as savage as any waged by George Bush.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Why? There's a simple answer: Canada is developing the world's second largest reserve of oil. Did I say oil? It's actually a filthy mixture of bitumen, sand, heavy metals and toxic organic chemicals. The tar sands, most of which occur in Alberta, are being extracted by the biggest opencast mining operation on earth. An area the size of England, comprising pristine forests and marshes, will be be dug up – unless the Canadians can stop this madness. Already it looks like a scene from the end of the world: the strip-miners are creating a churned black hell on an unimaginable scale.

    To extract oil from this mess, it needs to be heated and washed. Three barrels of water are used to process one barrel of oil. The contaminated water is held in vast tailings ponds, some so toxic that the tar companies employ people to scoop dead birds off the surface. Most are unlined. They leak organic poisons, arsenic and mercury into the rivers. The First Nations people living downstream have developed a range of exotic cancers and auto-immune diseases.

    Refining tar sands requires two to three times as much energy as refining crude oil. The companies exploiting them burn enough natural gas to heat six million homes. Alberta's tar sands operation is the world's biggest single industrial source of carbon emissions. By 2020, if the current growth continues, it will produce more greenhouse gases than Ireland or Denmark. Already, thanks in part to the tar mining, Canadians have almost the highest per capita emissions on earth, and the stripping of Alberta has scarcely begun.

    Canada hasn't acted alone. The biggest leaseholder in the tar sands is Shell, a company that has spent millions persuading the public that it respects the environment. The other great greenwasher, BP, initially decided to stay out of tar. Now it has invested in plants built to process it. The British bank RBS, 70% of which belongs to you and me (the government's share will soon rise to 84%), has lent or underwritten £8bn for mining the tar sands.

    The purpose of Canada's assault on the international talks is to protect this industry. This is not a poor nation. It does not depend for its economic survival on exploiting this resource. But the tar barons of Alberta have been able to hold the whole country to ransom. They have captured Canada's politics and are turning this lovely country into a cruel and thuggish place.
    Canada is a cultured, peaceful nation, which every so often allows a band of Neanderthals to trample over it. Timber firms were licensed to log the old-growth forest in Clayaquot Sound; fishing companies were permitted to destroy the Grand Banks: in both cases these get-rich-quick schemes impoverished Canada and its reputation. But this is much worse, as it affects the whole world. The government's scheming at the climate talks is doing for its national image what whaling has done for Japan.

    I will not pretend that this country is the only obstacle to an agreement at Copenhagen. But it is the major one. It feels odd to be writing this. The immediate threat to the global effort to sustain a peaceful and stable world comes not from Saudi Arabia or Iran or China. It comes from Canada. How could that be true?
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...n-climate-deal


    Oh Canada! Will you be to the environment what Japan and Norway are to whalery? What Bush was to internation law? To your own people what Shell has been to Nigeria?


    This is a dead-end policy. Canada's environment is slowly ruined. Canada is big, but so are the oceans, which turned out not to be infinite either. Human destruction and waste must have a finite limit.

    Canada's economic benefits of resource plunder are limited. A G7 country can not rely on plundering resources. Diversified, value-added economical activity is where it's at.
    Surely, Canada should not follow the path of other oil and resource rich countries and brush all considerations aside in search of a quick buck. It is an oft noted paradox that wealthy resources in practise, in the long run, have an adverse effect on economic and social development.
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  2. #2
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    I posted this in the EB Tavern yesterday, as I thought that it was both an excellent article, and that Meth would like it.

    <3 George Monbiot btw

  3. #3
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars
    So, it's actually "Teh Evile NORTH Americans Still...."?

    Still, I get your point; the greatest insult you can offer a Canadian is: "You're just like the Americans".

    --------

    Funny thing about trees. Plant new ones, and they grow, too. Toxic waste containment, on the other hand, needs looking to, it sounds.
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  4. #4
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    If undertake carefully it could be OK - but probably not profitable as a consequence.

    At the moment it is a similar process to what is happening to the Rainforests.

    Roll on Nuclear / solar / hydro / geothermal power!

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  5. #5
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    I posted this in the EB Tavern yesterday, as I thought that it was both an excellent article, and that Meth would like it.

    <3 George Monbiot btw
    what does "<3" mean anyway?
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  6. #6
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    It's like a heart, so it's similar to love. Ofc, I don't actually love hiom, but he's my favourite journalist, and I always read his articles.

  7. #7
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    ah, i see.

    in that case i believe Monboit to be an:

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    Last edited by Furunculus; 12-02-2009 at 15:39.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  8. #8
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    It's like a heart, so it's similar to love. Ofc, I don't actually love hiom, but he's my favourite journalist, and I always read his articles.
    *headsmack*

    I've been reading it: "less than 3" for years, and never understood.

    D'uh.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  9. #9
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    ah, i see.

    in that case i believe Monboit to be an:
    Meh. He's tried to put John Bolton under citizen's arrest once, so he's hardly a namby pamby liberal without the balls to do the things he preaches.
    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    *headsmack*

    I've been reading it: "less than 3" for years, and never understood.

    D'uh.
    Where did you learn that rubbish? Mathematics?

  10. #10
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    "The price of this transition is the brutalisation of the country, and a government campaign against multilateralism as savage as any waged by George Bush."
    ah, 'multilateralism', consensus must have become a dirty word of recent times then?

    "The real villain is Canada. Unless we can stop it, the harm done by Canada in December 2009 will outweigh a century of good works."
    i love these great moral judgements, given with any explanation or rational for how the judgement was assessed.

    "In 2006 the new Canadian government announced it was abandoning its targets to cut greenhouse gases under the Kyoto protocol. No other country that had ratified the treaty has done this."
    a nation that refuses to sign up for targets it has no intention of achieving, how refreshing, i could only wish that more kyoto signitories were as honest.

    "Never mind special measures; it won't accept even an equal share."
    an equal share of wealth re-distribution?

    "By demonstrating that climate sanctions aren't worth the paper they're written on, it threatens to render any treaty struck at Copenhagen void."
    so the enforcement mechanisms never worked then, but we should all just pretend that they really did?

    "At the end of 2007, it singlehandedly blocked a Commonwealth resolution to support binding targets for industrialised nations."
    so a unanimous decision was required, and they refused to agree, damn them!

    "The climate change performance index, which assesses the efforts of the world's 60 richest nations, was published in the same month. Saudi Arabia came 60th. Canada came 59th."
    again, policy somewhat in advance of the demonstrated science methinks, lets come back in six months and see if those metrics are still a valid way of stopping anthropogenic climate change.

    "In June this year the media obtained Canadian briefing documents which showed the government was scheming to divide the Europeans."
    ooh, politics, how nasty!

    "A concerted campaign has now begun to expel Canada from the Commonwealth."
    LOL

    "But such is the fragile nature of climate agreements that one rich nation – especially a member of the G8, the Commonwealth and the Kyoto group of industrialised countries – could scupper the treaty. Canada now threatens the wellbeing of the world."
    need a new enemy George, to focus the minds of the proles on the coming revolution, necessary now that saint obama runs the US?

    "By 2020, if the current growth continues, it will produce more greenhouse gases than Ireland or Denmark."
    thanks, but i've had my fill of doom-laden projections of the future based on worst-case modeling that fails to include a host of other pertinant modifiers.

    "The biggest leaseholder in the tar sands is Shell, a company that has spent millions persuading the public that it respects the environment. The other great greenwasher, BP, initially decided to stay out of tar."
    oh those baddies! *shakes fist*

    "Canada is a cultured, peaceful nation, which every so often allows a band of Neanderthals to trample over it. "
    The British right? I gotcha this time, did-n-i, can't fool me!

    "The government's scheming at the climate talks is doing for its national image what whaling has done for Japan."
    Think of the cuddly animals!

    "I will not pretend that this country is the only obstacle to an agreement at Copenhagen. But it is the major one. It feels odd to be writing this. The immediate threat to the global effort to sustain a peaceful and stable world comes not from Saudi Arabia or Iran or China. It comes from Canada."
    That's it boys and girls, the battle lines are drawn, the high-priest of alarmism/marxism has spoken. Get ready for the revolution.
    Last edited by Furunculus; 12-02-2009 at 23:13.
    Furunculus Maneuver: Adopt a highly logical position on a controversial subject where you cannot disagree with the merits of the proposal, only disagree with an opinion based on fundamental values. - Beskar

  11. #11
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Obligatory (language warning)
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  12. #12
    Backordered Member CrossLOPER's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    *headsmack*

    I've been reading it: "less than 3" for years, and never understood.

    D'uh.
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  13. #13
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    I'm an oil baron and I'm okay
    I dig all night and I steal all day

    I cut down trees, I rip up dirt
    I turn Canada 'to a lavat'ry
    On Wednesdays I go chopping
    And have buttered wildlife for tea

    I tear down trees, I destroy and burn
    I love to crush wild flow'rs
    I put on devil's clothing
    And put hippies behind bars

    I burn down trees, I poison natives
    Thanks to the sands of tar
    I wish I'd been Arabian
    Just like my dear Abdull-ah
    Last edited by Subotan; 12-02-2009 at 16:22.

  14. #14
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    What a heaping mound of Bull****, a rant unbound by reason or facts or objectivity, overflowing with rhetoric to make up for the lack of factual arguments.

    Tar Sands is simply the enviro's latest rallying point.

    Here's the deal; companies dig and drill up oil mixed with other components. Then they refine it, and it's oil. Canada doesn't have such nigh on impossible regulations as the EPA, so it's a target for environmentalists. Yeah, some parts don't look nice. The 'pollution' is hype, grossly exaggerated. I suppose we could just pay more money to Saudi Arabia and other fundamentalist whack job places so every square inch of the continent is kept pristine.

    Because of reasonable regulations, Canada has an abundance of oil, which puts it's people in a good position. They also supported tar sands even when it wasn't profitable, so they would be operational when it was profitable.

    Of course, the enviro's don't want anybody to have oil, so they scream and rant, as displayed here. They want the oil to just sit there, unused, while energy prices and the cost of living rise. So they scream these falsities about governments acting sensibly and not heed their alarmist screeching.

    CR
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  15. #15
    Dragonslayer Emeritus Senior Member Sigurd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Yeah... My company is going to bring up our share of this "dirty oil".
    We are not going to dig for it like the Canadians do. We are going to use our North Sea technology, drilling wells to it. I have seen the presentation and it involves steam in a closed system. There will not be any large deposits of toxic water.
    There are still some issues that needs ironing out, and if we should be able to pump CO2 back down into the wells or store it in some other way. This technology is new and is being developed.

    My company has established a research centre in Alberta to see if some new technology, especially for these kinds of operations can be developed.

    Some info about this project
    Last edited by Sigurd; 12-02-2009 at 19:19.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Pretty ridiculous article unfortunately.

  17. #17
    TexMec Senior Member Louis VI the Fat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Pretty ridiculous article unfortunately.
    Tsk. When we Euros patronisingly condemned the US of Bush, where were the Canadians to stand up for their southern neighbours, eh?
    Yet, here you, Rabbit and others are, standing up for the evil empire to your north.


    With that Nobel prize winning Marxist in the Oval Office we can't possibly scold the Yanks. (For now..)
    So the Canucks will have to stand in. Bring down that neo-liberal, neo-colonial fascist Harper, says I!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...pt-petro-state
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Yes, Canada's record on carbon emissions is disgraceful, shameful, loathsome etc. The tar sands of northern Alberta are an international scandal. But the problem is not in a former Prius of a country turning into a Hummer. Canada's dilemma is much more interesting that that. It is the decline of a democracy (partly as its media died, thank you Conrad Black) and the descent of a nation into a political stasis, and it could happen to any country that doesn't mind the political store. What takes place when a nation can't decide on a government and lets a rightwing minority, quivering with hate, have just enough power?


    Catastrophe, that's what.


    Countries supposedly get the government they deserve. I'm not sure Canada deserved Harper. Canadians can agree with Judge Monbiot's assessment but ask the court to take into account our previous, as Rumpole would say.


    First, no one disagrees more with Harper's refusal to slow climate change than Canadian voters. Indeed, more than three-quarters of Canadians say they are embarrassed that Canada hasn't taken an international lead on the issue, a recent poll revealed.


    Even Albertans – home of the tar sands because they need the money and who is to say them nay – agree on this. Quebeckers, the sophisticates of the nation, are 86% in favour of Canada taking action. Toronto, while suffering economically, is maniacally devoted to hemp, bicycling and meticulous recycling rules. We hate green garbage incompetents. We love the Kyoto protocol, we want to prostrate ourselves in Copenhagen next month, but until we make our mind up about whether to make Michael Ignatieff prime minister, we can't.
    May I humbly beg for patience with my country, which is stuck like a beaver in a dam of its own making.


    Second, Canadians are still smart and decent. Only the government hews to the party line. On every issue, from abortion rights to rendition for torture to fair treatment of non-white citizens who had the temerity to take a holiday and can't come home because they lost weight and don't quite look like their passport photo, Harper is determined to turn Canada into America-lite. He doesn't mean the America of Obama. He means the America of Ronald Reagan and George Bush, with its private affluence and public squalor.


    American travellers used to shove a Canadian flag on their backpack for better treatment overseas. I'm sorry that the reverse has happened and Canadians now switch the conversation to Obama as quickly as possibly before the subject of clubbing seals arises.
    We have shamed our better natures. But we Canadians will rid ourselves of Harper and rise again to be the decent and intelligent nation you Brits once patronised with such delight.
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  18. #18
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    Tsk. When we Euros patronisingly condemned the US of Bush, where were the Canadians to stand up for their southern neighbours, eh?
    Yet, here you, Rabbit and others are, standing up for the evil empire to your north.


    With that Nobel prize winning Marxist in the Oval Office we can't possibly scold the Yanks. (For now..)
    So the Canucks will have to stand in. Bring down that neo-liberal, neo-colonial fascist Harper, says I!
    I might be a tad more convinced if such articles actually appeared in Canadian papers, not as condescending screeds in leftist British papers. And they didn't include such ridiculous statements as "The tar sands of northern Alberta are an international scandal."

    Also, didn't Canada already re-elect Harper once? That's the only poll that matters. Not one opinion poll, and certainly not a couple leftist enviros ranting in a British paper, which is everything you've provided so far.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

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  19. #19
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    I was going to respond after I read the article, but scrolling through I didn't think that I could say anything more accurate than this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    What a heaping mound of Bull****, a rant unbound by reason or facts or objectivity, overflowing with rhetoric to make up for the lack of factual arguments.
    Harper may not be the greatest Prime Minister that Canada has ever had, but he is damned good at governing the country properly. And frankly, for Canada that makes a nice change from previous administration. Harper was re-elected by Canadians once, and current polling has him in majority territory, regardless of his abject lack of charisma. That says something.
    Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 12-02-2009 at 22:03.

  20. #20
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    I TOLD YOU SO!!! KLANADA!!!!





    ( )
    Last edited by Megas Methuselah; 12-02-2009 at 20:30.

  21. #21
    Probably Drunk Member Reverend Joe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Pollution is the solution. Canada has it right, except for the part where they try to contain the toxic waste... let the waste go free!

  22. #22
    Tuba Son Member Subotan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Nobody appreciated my cover-song...

  23. #23
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evil Americans Still Ruin the World for Petrodollars

    Quote Originally Posted by Subotan View Post
    Nobody appreciated my cover-song...
    Oh I did. Yes I did!

    This space intentionally left blank

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