Calling out the mods.

[Husar]

What I can say is that the tavern isn't a wannabe /b/ (Wanna/b/?) out to create trouble.

Good riddance.

There's probably a point somewhere in 4chan, like cooking recipes, but a lot that comes from it is just childish, silly and/or offensive. I'm probably old and grumpy but I never understood the appeal of it and never went there on my own. So now I have found this really serious place that appeals to old men like me and those silly kids invade it, guess what? I'm happy that they are crushed down.

[insert some silly lolzkittenzpicture here]

On a somewhat more serious note, I think a lot of the EB tavern people, and probably most 4chan people, lack respect, it's a "me/us vs the rest of the world and whoever doesn't like my kind of humour is a [insert silly lolzkittentpicture]" - attitude and I'm not a fan of it. That doesn't mean that you people haven't made some nice and appreciated Backroom contributions, but whenever this 4chan mentality shows though I wish I had a ban-button, my culture is superior after all.

[Socrates on Wheels]

Good riddance.

There's probably a point somewhere in 4chan, like cooking recipes, but a lot that comes from it is just childish, silly and/or offensive. I'm probably old and grumpy but I never understood the appeal of it and never went there on my own. So now I have found this really serious place that appeals to old men like me and those silly kids invade it, guess what? I'm happy that they are crushed down.

[insert some silly lolzkittenzpicture here]

Very occassionally, I visit /b/. I think that, if you know where to look, you can find some amazingly funny things there. The majority of things there are stupid/offensive though, which is why I don't visit there often
Likewise, I think I can find some amazingly funny things here as well, and that the majority of things said here are intelligent. I'm not attempting to turn it into /b/, and I'm sure no-one else is either.

[Cute Wolf]

Well, I must admit that I've seen the burning kitten pics in the tavern, at the photo thread, AP posts it as the answer of someone who post his dog's photo (note: that dog was really normal dog pics)

[Fixiwee]

Well, I must admit that I've seen the burning kitten pics in the tavern, at the photo thread, AP posts it as the answer of someone who post his dog's photo (note: that dog was really normal dog pics)

Really? Woah.

[Cute Wolf]

Yeah, I usually browse the EB tavern, because they are the funniest people in all Org... I was member of that group too, but rarely speak. Well, it was located in the official photo thread, and I remembered that kitten was the post of AP. It was burned with Zippo... No I don't get shocked at all with that pic... as I allready seen the real kitten slaughtering (and eat kitten too...) maybe he only want to suggest that burning was more humane method of slaughtering kittens (rather than smashing it with hammer or cudgel, it was the standard method to kill cats here)

[TosaInu]

Bans are announced in another topic in this forum, it hasn't been updated for a while.

Some people did post :daisies: and that was rewarded with ipoints. Those accounts are demoted for a few days.

[Andres]

There is a reminder of the rules.

Those rules were announced and explained in a thread created by TosaInu in February 2009.

Everybody knew what was expected; some apparently refused to understand. Now, measures have been taken.

If you insist on wanting to feel badly treated, then there's not much we can do about that

[drone]

No. Rule#1 and #2 were obeyed. There was no piracy or wares in the tavern. Just occasional bad language.

And see that's the problem. If some members of the tavern would have waved the attention flag, noone would have noticed or cared. Mods might have actually said: "they behave normal in the forum, let's let them have their place where they can blow off steam."

I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org.

[Furunculus]

you kids................... *tuts*

[Fixiwee]

I meant rules #1 and #2 of Fight Club, not the Org.

I don't talk about this! ;)

(Sorry for going OT, but this had to be said)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

OK, fine. If people think that that was a problem, then we’ll take that on board. Me and I’m guessing the others arenot too stubborn, or too proud to take valid criticism. However, going along and saying “It was better to just burn the whole thing to ground, as it was too entrenched to edit everything” is going to annoy the people who frequent there regularly. The whole process of dealing with us has swung in a few days from not dealing with it at all to ham-fisted censorship.

In the end tosa is busy, and doesn't want to take time out of real life to go through a 1000 pages.

This is more of a general criticism of Org policy. Have there been complaints from members of the Org about our behaviour within the Tavern? Or even outside? Has every time one of us made a post, have you been flooded with report buttons?

Nah, we haven't been flooded with complaints, it was probably the kitten thing that did you in to be honest.

And with regards to “Just use email/IRC/Quicktopic”; those are all amazingly impractical. With the EB Tavern, I’m surrounded by other, intelligent people, and I know that if I leave a comment, someone will reply. Sending out mass emails will kill off our friendship with one another.

You can have a group here...perhaps an arrangement can be worked out.

[Subotan]

Yeah, I usually browse the EB tavern, because they are the funniest people in all Org... I was member of that group too, but rarely speak. Well, it was located in the official photo thread, and I remembered that kitten was the post of AP. It was burned with Zippo... No I don't get shocked at all with that pic... as I allready seen the real kitten slaughtering (and eat kitten too...) maybe he only want to suggest that burning was more humane method of slaughtering kittens (rather than smashing it with hammer or cudgel, it was the standard method to kill cats here)

Yeah...I wasn't going to mention Zippocat by name. Although I still didn't see it here, and had I, I would have reported it.

Everybody knew what was expected; some apparently refused to understand. Now, measures have been taken.

If you insist on wanting to feel badly treated, then there's not much we can do about that

...Except examine those rules and see if they are actually working. By implementing them in social groups, they are achieving the opposite of what they're meant to doing. I haven't seen any explanation as to why having those particular rules applicable in social groups make the .org more interesting or entertaining.

In the end tosa is busy, and doesn't want to take time out of real life to go through a 1000 pages.

Did it even need to be deleted? Or was it threatening to break loose and infect the rest of the forum with it's cuss words and the like?

Nah, we haven't been flooded with complaints,

Exactly, there's no demand for moderation on this scale. Orgahs are quite happy as long as we keep ourselves to ourselves and leave the EB Tavern where it belongs. Moderators are supposed to serve the community they moderate, not some semi-sacred, untouchable Decalogue of rules.

it was probably the kitten thing that did you in to be honest.

Then that should have been dealt with on an individual process, not a collective group punishment (I wasn't aware that it had even existed, so I don't know how it was dealt with)

[Lemur]

Speaking as one of the two mods assigned to the Frontroom, I can assure you that things said in the EB Tavern have not stayed in the EB Tavern, and many a personal insult or troll of another member has been justified with, "Oh, we do this all the time in EB Tavern, what's the big deal?"

As for rules, you'll see we have surprisingly few for a board of this size. Common sense and common courtesy trump all.

I haven't seen any explanation as to why having those particular rules applicable in social groups make the .org more interesting or entertaining.

And I don't see anyone making an argument as to why the social groups should be a private fiefdom where flame wars can rage and offensive content can be trolled. Feel free to make that argument, though.

[Mithrandir]

...

[Rob The Bastard]

There are rules.

If you miscreants push the wrong button, you can expect a reaction... suprise! you got a reaction. It seems that your "normal" activities merely gets you registering on the Org spy satelite, flaunting flaming kitty like a banner begs for a nuclear strike, with a follow up nuke on top of the rubble, just in case.

You got off lightly.

in my humble opinion.

You should either post within the bounds of what is acceptable... or not post at all.

PS act like a grown up when you review your post, proir to posting it (you do do that don't you?) it might save you some grief.

regards

Bastard.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I knew all this group stuff was gonna end in tears. Lay off our mods, gentlemen. And hope that I'm never made one.

[A Very Super Market]

No one here has insulted the mods or the .org (acin shouldn't count). The general consensus seems to be that the tavern is full of cat-burning potheads filling pages with crispy animals. It's interesting how an isolated event that wasn't approved by taverners in the first place can turn into a stereotype within a single thread. I don't care if anybody tries to limit the admitted profanity going on, but what is the point of villifying us? Yes, one photo of animal abuse was present. Our crime was that we simply didn't report it. I don't recall any amount of flaunting or boasting about that going on, nor do I recall anyone making it their sig, nor was that image ever referenced again apart from the one post.

[Centurion1]

you guys burned a living kitten with a zippo and make jokes about it...........

that is so sick.

like seriously im disgusted that could be a prison sentence

[A Very Super Market]

If you are trolling, I find that post to be incredibly hilarious and tasteless at the same time.

If you're serious, then you jumping to conclusions. AP posted "zippocat", an old series of images of some man burning his cat to death. No, we did not arrange a meeting in someone's house and light his cat on fire.

[LeftEyeNine]

You are simply dodging a huge part of the root of the disruption you have caused as a certain group of members, while, interestingly and contradictively, contributing heavily into the mentioned stereotyping by underlining the most disgusting piece of I have ever seen on this board.

Were I the admin, you'd need alternative account creation bots to keep up. Yet you are overflowing with "omg oppressive modz rocking our pink and cuddly worlds !!1" kind of as-old-as-the-interwebz anti-moderation anarchism.

Moderators are supposed to serve the community they moderate, not some semi-sacred, untouchable Decalogue of rules.

The sheer fact that The Org, after all these years, being such a hot-headed as I am, stays as my only bookmark I have not given upon is since the members actually "behave, if not, improve". I was one that could not once.

Members serve their very own community here. Don't push something all over us as if we are being paid for having to brainstorm over "careless laughter and loud pranks coming out of a room clouded with weed smoke". All staff is up there 'cause they somehow manage to enjoy it, ones that don't feel like it simply quit. I absolutely have no idea of what kind of hallucinogen induced imagination of such a "committee of overlords" in your minds.

Beirut had a saying: Be good or be elsewhere. It's as simple as this. If there is a better place with more tolerant moderation staff, I suppose the obvious choice of yours would please both parties.

[NICATON]

Like Subo, i felt like i need to reply in here.

Nah, we haven't been flooded with complaints, it was probably the kitten thing that did you in to be honest.

I knew it had to be that. i should have said something, especially after the last time when he posted those pictures of that girl's mangled body after a car accident.

Speaking as one of the two mods assigned to the Frontroom, I can assure you that things said in the EB Tavern have not stayed in the EB Tavern, and many a personal insult or troll of another member has been justified with, "Oh, we do this all the time in EB Tavern, what's the big deal?"

I want links to some examples please.

And I don't see anyone making an argument as to why the social groups should be a private fiefdom where flame wars can rage and offensive content can be trolled. Feel free to make that argument, though.

Man, at this point I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's. I don't do any of the friggen trolling or flame wars anymore, you can look at the backroom recently and see that I have been posting intelligent arguments and responding to those who disagree politely, trying to contribute. We made the thing moderated so only we would be the ones talking in it and no one else would raise concerns.

[Rilder]

We taverners have a long history of pissing off the mods.

The mods are afraid we might offend someone, while we believe that if you get offended by something said on a forum, maybe you should back off the forum awhile.

I admit we go to far sometimes, and some of our members need a little bit more self control, but for the most part the Taven has always been a place to unwind, to rant about something a mod did behind the mods back or to make fun of each other.

Free The Tavern, Free the Tavern!

[Subotan]

Speaking as one of the two mods assigned to the Frontroom, I can assure you that things said in the EB Tavern have not stayed in the EB Tavern,

OK, fine. We won't in future.

and many a personal insult or troll of another member has been justified with, "Oh, we do this all the time in EB Tavern, what's the big deal?"

Really?

As for rules, you'll see we have surprisingly few for a board of this size. Common sense and common courtesy trump all.

The size of a forum has nothing whatsoever in common with the amount or the enforcement of rules.

And I don't see anyone making an argument as to why the social groups should be a private fiefdom where flame wars can rage and offensive content can be trolled. Feel free to make that argument, though.

I haven't seen anyone arguing for that. And you dodged my question.

There are rules.

Yes. I understand that. I am not thick. However, those rules are being overzealously being enforced, in a manner quite similar to this. Rules, made with good intentions, and used correctly the majority of the time, are being used excessively.

If you miscreants push the wrong button, you can expect a reaction... suprise! you got a reaction. It seems that your "normal" activities merely gets you registering on the Org spy satelite, flaunting flaming kitty like a banner begs for a nuclear strike, with a follow up nuke on top of the rubble, just in case..

What.

Are you implying that all of us were "flaunting flaming kitty"? I didn't even know that it had even existed on this forum!

PS act like a grown up when you review your post, proir to posting it (you do do that don't you?) it might save you some grief.

PS Don't descend to being condescending; it becomes very obvious that your argument is so weak that you have to resort to that. Just thought it might save you some grief.

I knew all this group stuff was gonna end in tears. Lay off our mods, gentlemen.

Oh, I have nothing against the mods personally. I would say that the majority of the time they do a great job. But in this instance, disproportionate action was taken.

No one here has insulted the mods or the .org (acin shouldn't count). The general consensus seems to be that the tavern is full of cat-burning potheads filling pages with crispy animals. It's interesting how an isolated event that wasn't approved by taverners in the first place can turn into a stereotype within a single thread. I don't care if anybody tries to limit the admitted profanity going on, but what is the point of villifying us?

You know why that is; they've wanted to get rid of it for a long time and so probably the worst thing that ever appeared there has been presented in such a way as to imply that that was just part of our normal routine.

you guys burned a living kitten with a zippo and make jokes about it...........

that is so sick.

like seriously im disgusted that could be a prison sentence

Oh great, so not only are we all guys who look at pictures of burning kittens, but we actually burn kittens as well. How did you make the mental leap from one guy posting a picture of a burning kitten (That a lot of us never even saw) to that meaning we're all kitten murderers?

You are simply dodging a huge part of the root of the disruption you have caused as a certain group of members, while, interestingly and contradictively, contributing heavily into the mentioned stereotyping by underlining the most disgusting piece of I have ever seen on this board.

So we're just supposed to ignore the false accusations against us?

Were I the admin, you'd need alternative account creation bots to keep up. Yet you are overflowing with "omg oppressive modz rocking our pink and cuddly worlds !!1" kind of as-old-as-the-interwebz anti-moderation anarchism.

Been there, done that. Yawn.

The sheer fact that The Org, after all these years, being such a hot-headed as I am, stays as my only bookmark I have not given upon is since the members actually "behave, if not, improve". I was one that could not once.

Having the EB Tavern exist is hardly going to make the whole place descend into anarchy.

Members serve their very own community here. Don't push something all over us as if we are being paid for having to brainstorm over "careless laughter and loud pranks coming out of a room clouded with weed smoke". All staff is up there 'cause they somehow manage to enjoy it, ones that don't feel like it simply quit.

I am criticising one aspect of your overall approach to modding. That is it. I'm not calling for some kind of revolution.

I absolutely have no idea of what kind of hallucinogen induced imagination of such a "committee of overlords" in your minds.

Are you implying that I abuse hallucinogenics? I've never even seen a joint, let alone smoked one. Stop painting me to be something which I am clearly not.
Also, note the reduction to the "Some of them support changes to drugs policy; therefore, they must all be stoners! Thus, they are stupid" argument.

Beirut had a saying: Be good or be elsewhere. It's as simple as this. If there is a better place with more tolerant moderation staff, I suppose the obvious choice of yours would please both parties.

This is the first instance I have ever seen of a moderator saying "Go away interesting people. You're not wanted here."

The situation is this. I like to be here. It has interesting people here. So do the other EB Tavern members. They like it too. Me and the other EB Tavern members share a similar kind of humour, and we all like each other. So, because we don't want to have to go to another, not interesting forum, we set up a social group where we can be a bit silly. Sometimes we make silly posts in the EB Tavern, sometimes we make serious posts in the EB Tavern, and a lot of the time we make serious posts in the rest of the Org. Because we all have friends who are not in the EB Tavern, we like to stay in the rest of the .Org. Going to a different forum, and "migrating" the EB Tavern is impossible.
There is no obligation to join the EB Tavern. I do not see why people are offended by stuff which is not only rather tame, but that they also do not have to see.

[Subotan]

OK, fine. We won't in future.


Really?


The size of a forum has nothing whatsoever in common with the amount or the enforcement of rules.


I haven't seen anyone arguing for that. And you dodged my question.



Yes. I understand that. I am not thick. However, those rules are being overzealously being enforced, in a manner quite similar to this. Rules, made with good intentions, and used correctly the majority of the time, are being used excessively.


What.

Are you implying that all of us were "flaunting flaming kitty"? I didn't even know that it had even existed on this forum!


PS Don't descend to being condescending; it becomes very obvious that your argument is so weak that you have to resort to that. Just thought it might save you some grief.


Oh, I have nothing against the mods personally. I would say that the majority of the time they do a great job. But in this instance, disproportionate action was taken.


You know why that is; they've wanted to get rid of it for a long time and so probably the worst thing that ever appeared there has been presented in such a way as to imply that that was just part of our normal routine.


Oh great, so not only are we all guys who look at pictures of burning kittens, but we actually burn kittens as well. How did you make the mental leap from one guy posting a picture of a burning kitten (That a lot of us never even saw) to that meaning we're all kitten murderers?


So we're just supposed to ignore the false accusations against us?


Been there, done that. Yawn.


Having the EB Tavern exist is hardly going to make the whole place descend into anarchy.


I am criticising one aspect of your overall approach to modding. That is it. I'm not calling for some kind of revolution.


Are you implying that I abuse hallucinogenics? I've never even seen a joint, let alone smoked one. Stop painting me to be something which I am clearly not.
Also, note the reduction to the "Some of them support changes to drugs policy; therefore, they must all be stoners! Thus, they are stupid" argument.


This is the first instance I have ever seen of a moderator saying "Go away interesting people. You're not wanted here."

The situation is this. I like to be here. It has interesting people here. So do the other EB Tavern members. They like it too. Me and the other EB Tavern members share a similar kind of humour, and we all like each other. So, because we don't want to have to go to another, not interesting forum, we set up a social group where we can be a bit silly. Sometimes we make silly posts in the EB Tavern, sometimes we make serious posts in the EB Tavern, and a lot of the time we make serious posts in the rest of the Org. Because we all have friends who are not in the EB Tavern, we like to stay in the rest of the .Org. Going to a different forum, and "migrating" the EB Tavern is impossible.
There is no obligation to join the EB Tavern. I do not see why people are offended by stuff which is not only rather tame, but that they also do not have to see.

I knew it had to be that. i should have said something, especially after the last time when he posted those pictures of that girl's mangled body after a car accident.

...What?

Man, at this point I just want a place where I talk with my Tavern friends (been here for a year and a half already) and shoot the breeze without my sentences becoming stupid daisy's.

Exactly. We are no worse than a bunch of guys sitting in a tavern, saying the first thing that comes into our heads. That is what we are, and all we have ever been.

I don't do any of the friggen trolling or flame wars anymore,

Likewise, as if I ever did them.

you can look at the backroom recently and see that I have been posting intelligent arguments and responding to those who disagree politely, trying to contribute. We made the thing moderated so only we would be the ones talking in it and no one else would raise concerns.

What bothers me is that certain members are in the backroom allowed to make quite slanderous or clearly false posts, whilst if we forget to put a daisy instead of the word "Hell", all breaks loose.

We taverners have a long history of pissing off the mods...to rant about something a mod did behind the mods back

Not helping

The mods are afraid we might offend someone, while we believe that if you get offended by something said on a forum, maybe you should back off the forum awhile.

I admit we go to far sometimes, and some of our members need a little bit more self control, but for the most part the Taven has always been a place to unwind,...or to make fun of each other.

Free The Tavern, Free the Tavern!

Although all this is quite accurate.

[Subotan]

Damn, I appear to have hit the quote button by mistake, as I am unable to edit my own posts.

[NICATON]

...What?

yeah, this was before you re-joined the group. We got in the same damn trouble because he posted pictures of a girl with no head, the aftermath of a car accident.

[Centurion1]

i find it hard to believe no one knew about something like that. i mean egads man how does that not get around and why didnt anyone tell him to take it down?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

We taverners have a long history of pissing off the mods.

The mods are afraid we might offend someone, while we believe that if you get offended by something said on a forum, maybe you should back off the forum awhile.

I admit we go to far sometimes, and some of our members need a little bit more self control, but for the most part the Taven has always been a place to unwind, to rant about something a mod did behind the mods back or to make fun of each other.

Free The Tavern, Free the Tavern!

You can be free - set up your own forum and post all the shock pics you want. You can't have your cake and smear ours with your leavings, too.

[Rilder]

What shock pics? I haven't seen any? Nor posted any?

I'm serious... what in Zeus did I miss?

[AlexanderSextus]

You can be free - set up your own forum and post all the shock pics you want. You can't have your cake and smear ours with your leavings, too.

The shock pics were the work of ONE person out of our whole group, and we didn't even like them.

He got in trouble for posting them, and we didn't complain about that.