Dear Mods/Admins

[Che Roriniho]

Below is an open letter, in which I am exercising my legal right to free speech. There is nothing contained within it that is contrary to the forum rules or, indeed, any legal system that I can think of.

Okay, I've only been back for a few hours after being banned for over a month for merely standing up for what was right (nobody mention godwin's law); but mods, this is ridiculous.

Let's start from the beginning:

1. You did not inform the tavern when you closed it down. There was many things on there which we ewould have wanted to keep, such as AP and AS's tank debate, my WWII sketch script, and, well, there was 10,000 posts, so being told before it's destruction is at the least polite. Power and head's come to mind here (not for alll mods, but for two in particular that stand out).

2. You then seemed to go on a banning spree when the taverners, understandably annoyed, questioned why on earth you'd delete it. I was banned for a month (completely ridiculous. A month. A MONTH. And still no-one as actually given me a reason as to why.), as was AP, subotan, and I'm sure more. This stinks, frankly, and if you can't see how it is wrong then I don't know what to say. Purging people because you don't like opinions, I thought at least, was confined to the history books, or at least China. I do not expect a personal apology, but I do expect an apology to the tavern in general.

3. The Coup. I've just found out about this, but frankly Tosa, this is ridiculous. Are you really so sanctimonious to act as overwatch for what you have just destroyed for fear of opinions? Throwing Meth off this board (after, of course, throwing me off, how very nice of you) does seem to demonstrate a certain control freak aspect. The fact is Tosa, you cannot control people. You are not God, you are a mod, now just let the rest of us be, and all parties will benefit. I would also like to point out, that throwing people out of a group because you do not agree with them is both childish and petty.

I have noticed that the mods here (again, I must stress, not all) have a certain banophilic tendency when faced with an adult conversation beteween adults on a mostly adult section of the site. The tavern, remember, was created to keep spam, flaming and such off the org, which it has done, at least to some extent, and you cannot deny that. If swearing offends you, fine, but good luck in the real world. If jokes offend you, don't read on. Being offended for the sake of being offended is ridiculous eenough, but then taking action? That's, well, DAFT.

Another thing that I find almost sickening is the complet hipocracy of the mods here. You complained to the Tavern about sexism (where?), and yet you have 'The Babe Thread'. You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

I hate to use such a cheap expression, but it does aptly describe the situation, but, to mods, taverners and general .orgers: Man up, and grow a pair.


Yours,


CHE.

[TinCow]

Below is an open letter, in which I am exercising my legal right to free speech. There is nothing contained within it that is contrary to the forum rules or, indeed, any legal system that I can think of.

FYI, freedom of speech is only legally binding on the government. Private organizations are generally allowed to censor all they want.

[Ser Clegane]

Just two comments:

mostly adult section of the site

I wasn't aware we had an "adult section" (or "mostly adult section") on this board - please elaborate. I believe it was common knowledge that this is a PG13 board.

Throwing Meth off this board

I assume you are referring to the current status of his account? He certainly knows what has triggered this and I would suggest to check with him before making wild assumptions.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I am an adult. A mature man. I shouldn't spend my time reading this...well whatever it is.

I'm going to do something interesting instead.

[Che Roriniho]

Just two comments:


I wasn't aware we had an "adult section" (or "mostly adult section") on this board - please elaborate. I believe it was common knowledge that this is a PG13 board.

I mean a part of the site where there were mostly adults, not the other meaning

I assume you are referring to the current status of his account? He certainly knows what has triggered this and I would suggest to check with him before making wild assumptions.

I was talking about when he was thrown off as the head of the Tavern; which he only was head of, not because he wanted to be, but because Tosa made him so. Yes, Tosa used MY ACCOUNT to ask Meth, under my name, to head the tavern. THAT is why he was kicked off, which made a nice excuse for Tosa to exercise all his Hitler fantasies in one go, such as throwing me out of the tavern for no obvious or apparant reason.

[Ser Clegane]

Yes, Tosa used MY ACCOUNT to ask Meth, under my name, to head the tavern. THAT is why he was kicked off, which made a nice excuse for Tosa to exercise all his Hitler fantasies in one go, such as throwing me out of the tavern for no obvious or apparant reason.

Ohhhkaaay...

[Gregoshi]

Ladies and gentlemen, Hitler has entered the building...

The Org is what it is. 99.99% of the patrons seem to be happy with this and have zero issues with the administration of this board. Most of the remaining 0.01% that do have issues, live and learn. The remainder play the martyr/rebel-been-wronged card and cause trouble before walking away. Civil discussion of the issue is allowed. It is when it turns nasty that banning becomes a possibility. After the discussion is done though, the choice is to accept the verdict or move elsewhere. Simple really.

BTW, if Tosa is harbouring Hitlerian fantasies, he is failing miserably.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

The Internet; serious business.

To the point; a number of people have manged to have large disagreements with the admins and mods here. They didn't get banned because they managed to do so civilly.

CR

[Che Roriniho]

The Internet; serious business.

To the point; a number of people have manged to have large disagreements with the admins and mods here. They didn't get banned because they managed to do so civilly.

CR

To be fair, I think deleting what was by far the biggest social group on the org without warning is hardly civil. And then banning half the members when they are slightly peeved. And then throwing some members out of the group. And then using one of the member's account to nominate another taverner to be barkeep. And then nominating yourself barkeep, with no permission from anyone.

That is hardly acting civil.

And the internet is serious business, when it comes to my friends. Because of the sanctimonious actions of the mods herre, I have lost many friends, as our meeting place has been destroyed.

[TinCow]

And then nominating yourself barkeep, with no permission from anyone.

That is hardly acting civil.

Tosa took over moderation of the Tavern because the assigned moderator did not do anything to edit out posts which violated Org rules. Since it became clear that even after the Tavern was deleted the first time, you were not going to properly self-regulate your social group, there were only two options available to us. First, we could just delete the group again. Second, the group could be switched over to moderation by a member of the staff. Tosa chose the option that would have the least impact on you, and in the process gave himself the extra burden of having to be responsible for editing the posts of the group, on top of everything else he does here. Your anger at him is misplaced, as Tosa actively saved the Second Tavern from being deleted.

And the internet is serious business, when it comes to my friends. Because of the sanctimonious actions of the mods herre, I have lost many friends, as our meeting place has been destroyed.

The internet is a big place, it shouldn't be very difficult to relocate to another spot if you find this one not to your liking.

[Beskar]

Looks like the circus made another appearance this week.

[Centurion1]

How does prussian iron troll. I am going to defend this poor innocent boy. And finally your audience in the tavern was not all adults. One of your common posters was Aemilius Paulus who is not 18 yet and therefore not an adult. Older than his years and intelligent? yes but he cant smoke, buy a playboy, or see an rated R movie without his mommy.

Sorry AP, but you were the first example i could think of.

Actually i may be wrong AP might be older than i think but i remeber hearing he was dual enrolled in high school and college.

either way my main point stands, leave poor PI alone, he already gets enough flak from the infamous girl help threads.

[Che Roriniho]

Okay, first, the person who was in charge of the tavern was only thuis because Tosa used my account to nominate him. He cleared up pretty well, but for one thing: the acceptence letter of Meth. Let me make this clear, Meth was never going to be in charge of the tavern. He was only in charge because Tosa made him so. I would again like to point out that there was nothing on the second tavern that warrented a closure anyway, and Tosa STILL has not got back to me as to why he threw me out of the tavern.

And as you say, the internet IS a big place, so when you remove landmarks, people get lost.

[drone]

1. You did not inform the tavern when you closed it down. There was many things on there which we ewould have wanted to keep, such as AP and AS's tank debate, my WWII sketch script, and, well, there was 10,000 posts, so being told before it's destruction is at the least polite. Power and head's come to mind here (not for alll mods, but for two in particular that stand out).

From what I saw, there were several notices about cleaning up the EB Tavern, these were apparently ignored so Tosa took the axe to the whole thing. The Taverners were asked to police themselves, and in the minds of Tosa and the mods, they did not. Yes, there were 10,000 posts, how much time do you expect Tosa and the mods to spend cleaning it up?

2. You then seemed to go on a banning spree when the taverners, understandably annoyed, questioned why on earth you'd delete it. I was banned for a month (completely ridiculous. A month. A MONTH. And still no-one as actually given me a reason as to why.), as was AP, subotan, and I'm sure more. This stinks, frankly, and if you can't see how it is wrong then I don't know what to say. Purging people because you don't like opinions, I thought at least, was confined to the history books, or at least China. I do not expect a personal apology, but I do expect an apology to the tavern in general.

Nobody was banned. Some members of the EB Tavern broke forum rules when protesting it's closure. Warning points were given and involuntary vacations were the result. Many members decided to use alts to get around their punishments, so they got extra points. Nobody was purged.

3. The Coup. I've just found out about this, but frankly Tosa, this is ridiculous. Are you really so sanctimonious to act as overwatch for what you have just destroyed for fear of opinions? Throwing Meth off this board (after, of course, throwing me off, how very nice of you) does seem to demonstrate a certain control freak aspect. The fact is Tosa, you cannot control people. You are not God, you are a mod, now just let the rest of us be, and all parties will benefit. I would also like to point out, that throwing people out of a group because you do not agree with them is both childish and petty.

I have no idea of what Meth did, but he is also not banned. And Tosa is not a mod, he is the site admin. The 1s and 0s that represent the Org are under his control, so he is essentially God as far as totalwar.org is concerned. This is the reality of the situation, like it or not.

I have noticed that the mods here (again, I must stress, not all) have a certain banophilic tendency when faced with an adult conversation beteween adults on a mostly adult section of the site. The tavern, remember, was created to keep spam, flaming and such off the org, which it has done, at least to some extent, and you cannot deny that. If swearing offends you, fine, but good luck in the real world. If jokes offend you, don't read on. Being offended for the sake of being offended is ridiculous eenough, but then taking action? That's, well, DAFT.

The forum rules apply to all sections of the Org, which included the EB tavern. Spam, pr0n, warez, gruesome pics, flame wars, swearing, et al, are forbidden. They were tolerated to some extent within the group, hence the complete removal.

Another thing that I find almost sickening is the complet hipocracy of the mods here. You complained to the Tavern about sexism (where?), and yet you have 'The Babe Thread'. You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

The Babe Thread has rules, and is countered by the Hunk Thread. People who post bigoted comments or troll do not go unchecked, they get warning points. Warning points and their results are not public knowledge, only account bans get published.

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

Remember, the internet is serious business. Lemur can't do anything to you about this post, his purview is the Frontroom. Tosa will probably just lock this thread, the discussion is pointless and he is busy with the vBulletin update.

This thread will only result in more warning points if it continues. It will only drag more Taverners in and start the whole cycle again.

[Che Roriniho]

From what I saw, there were several notices about cleaning up the EB Tavern, these were apparently ignored so Tosa took the axe to the whole thing. The Taverners were asked to police themselves, and in the minds of Tosa and the mods, they did not. Yes, there were 10,000 posts, how much time do you expect Tosa and the mods to spend cleaning it up?


Nobody was banned. Some members of the EB Tavern broke forum rules when protesting it's closure. Warning points were given and involuntary vacations were the result. Many members decided to use alts to get around their punishments, so they got extra points. Nobody was purged.


I have no idea of what Meth did, but he is also not banned. And Tosa is not a mod, he is the site admin. The 1s and 0s that represent the Org are under his control, so he is essentially God as far as totalwar.org is concerned. This is the reality of the situation, like it or not.


The forum rules apply to all sections of the Org, which included the EB tavern. Spam, pr0n, warez, gruesome pics, flame wars, swearing, et al, are forbidden. They were tolerated to some extent within the group, hence the complete removal.


The Babe Thread has rules, and is countered by the Hunk Thread. People who post bigoted comments or troll do not go unchecked, they get warning points. Warning points and their results are not public knowledge, only account bans get published.


Remember, the internet is serious business. Lemur can't do anything to you about this post, his purview is the Frontroom. Tosa will probably just lock this thread, the discussion is pointless and he is busy with the vBulletin update.

This thread will only result in more warning points if it continues. It will only drag more Taverners in and start the whole cycle again.

I am not complaining THAT it was closed, what I am complaining about is THE MANNER with which it was closed. No warning, just banning.

Me, Subotan, and ACIN were banned, and I know for a fact that neith me nor Subo broke any rules (I can't speak for ACIN, as I don't know his situation)

We never posted Spam, pr0n, warez, gore, and more, and whilst there was swearing, it was not quite as plorific as mods/admins make out.

The fact there is a hunk thread does not detract from the fact that 'The Babe Thread' is not PG13. and yet the Tavern is not allowed.

[TinCow]

Me, Subotan, and ACIN were banned, and I know for a fact that neith me nor Subo broke any rules (I can't speak for ACIN, as I don't know the rules.

You don't know the rules, but you know you didn't break them?

[Pannonian]

Hop over to usenet if you want a forum where the membership is adult, and where the conversations are mostly unconstrained, and depending on where you go, unmoderated. Find an appropriate newsgroup to hang out in, and you can talk about whatever you like, up to the point where someone complains to your ISP. Alternatvely, create a Quicktopic messageboard.

[pevergreen]

Having a big social group, or a big social group post count, or being vocal or most of the stuff you do doesnt exempt you from the rules of this site.

Also: OP

BLAH BLAH BLAH WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE

get over it. Tosa has the right to get rid of anything he wants. His site, his rules.

IMO, Lemur is fine in his moderating style. I've received quite a few warning points, whereas others wouldnt, but it was after warning.


Meth is... a bit of a . He needs to grow up a bit.

[Che Roriniho]

@Tincow Sorry, bit of a slip there. What I meant to say was: (I can't speak for ACIN, as I don't know his situation.)

Edited the OP