Dear Mods/Admins

[Che Roriniho]

Below is an open letter, in which I am exercising my legal right to free speech. There is nothing contained within it that is contrary to the forum rules or, indeed, any legal system that I can think of.

Okay, I've only been back for a few hours after being banned for over a month for merely standing up for what was right (nobody mention godwin's law); but mods, this is ridiculous.

Let's start from the beginning:

1. You did not inform the tavern when you closed it down. There was many things on there which we ewould have wanted to keep, such as AP and AS's tank debate, my WWII sketch script, and, well, there was 10,000 posts, so being told before it's destruction is at the least polite. Power and head's come to mind here (not for alll mods, but for two in particular that stand out).

2. You then seemed to go on a banning spree when the taverners, understandably annoyed, questioned why on earth you'd delete it. I was banned for a month (completely ridiculous. A month. A MONTH. And still no-one as actually given me a reason as to why.), as was AP, subotan, and I'm sure more. This stinks, frankly, and if you can't see how it is wrong then I don't know what to say. Purging people because you don't like opinions, I thought at least, was confined to the history books, or at least China. I do not expect a personal apology, but I do expect an apology to the tavern in general.

3. The Coup. I've just found out about this, but frankly Tosa, this is ridiculous. Are you really so sanctimonious to act as overwatch for what you have just destroyed for fear of opinions? Throwing Meth off this board (after, of course, throwing me off, how very nice of you) does seem to demonstrate a certain control freak aspect. The fact is Tosa, you cannot control people. You are not God, you are a mod, now just let the rest of us be, and all parties will benefit. I would also like to point out, that throwing people out of a group because you do not agree with them is both childish and petty.

I have noticed that the mods here (again, I must stress, not all) have a certain banophilic tendency when faced with an adult conversation beteween adults on a mostly adult section of the site. The tavern, remember, was created to keep spam, flaming and such off the org, which it has done, at least to some extent, and you cannot deny that. If swearing offends you, fine, but good luck in the real world. If jokes offend you, don't read on. Being offended for the sake of being offended is ridiculous eenough, but then taking action? That's, well, DAFT.

Another thing that I find almost sickening is the complet hipocracy of the mods here. You complained to the Tavern about sexism (where?), and yet you have 'The Babe Thread'. You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

I hate to use such a cheap expression, but it does aptly describe the situation, but, to mods, taverners and general .orgers: Man up, and grow a pair.


Yours,


CHE.

[TinCow]

Below is an open letter, in which I am exercising my legal right to free speech. There is nothing contained within it that is contrary to the forum rules or, indeed, any legal system that I can think of.

FYI, freedom of speech is only legally binding on the government. Private organizations are generally allowed to censor all they want.

[Ser Clegane]

Just two comments:

mostly adult section of the site

I wasn't aware we had an "adult section" (or "mostly adult section") on this board - please elaborate. I believe it was common knowledge that this is a PG13 board.

Throwing Meth off this board

I assume you are referring to the current status of his account? He certainly knows what has triggered this and I would suggest to check with him before making wild assumptions.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I am an adult. A mature man. I shouldn't spend my time reading this...well whatever it is.

I'm going to do something interesting instead.

[Che Roriniho]

Just two comments:


I wasn't aware we had an "adult section" (or "mostly adult section") on this board - please elaborate. I believe it was common knowledge that this is a PG13 board.

I mean a part of the site where there were mostly adults, not the other meaning

I assume you are referring to the current status of his account? He certainly knows what has triggered this and I would suggest to check with him before making wild assumptions.

I was talking about when he was thrown off as the head of the Tavern; which he only was head of, not because he wanted to be, but because Tosa made him so. Yes, Tosa used MY ACCOUNT to ask Meth, under my name, to head the tavern. THAT is why he was kicked off, which made a nice excuse for Tosa to exercise all his Hitler fantasies in one go, such as throwing me out of the tavern for no obvious or apparant reason.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

The Internet; serious business.

To the point; a number of people have manged to have large disagreements with the admins and mods here. They didn't get banned because they managed to do so civilly.

CR

[Che Roriniho]

The Internet; serious business.

To the point; a number of people have manged to have large disagreements with the admins and mods here. They didn't get banned because they managed to do so civilly.

CR

To be fair, I think deleting what was by far the biggest social group on the org without warning is hardly civil. And then banning half the members when they are slightly peeved. And then throwing some members out of the group. And then using one of the member's account to nominate another taverner to be barkeep. And then nominating yourself barkeep, with no permission from anyone.

That is hardly acting civil.

And the internet is serious business, when it comes to my friends. Because of the sanctimonious actions of the mods herre, I have lost many friends, as our meeting place has been destroyed.

[Ser Clegane]

Yes, Tosa used MY ACCOUNT to ask Meth, under my name, to head the tavern. THAT is why he was kicked off, which made a nice excuse for Tosa to exercise all his Hitler fantasies in one go, such as throwing me out of the tavern for no obvious or apparant reason.

Ohhhkaaay...

[drone]

1. You did not inform the tavern when you closed it down. There was many things on there which we ewould have wanted to keep, such as AP and AS's tank debate, my WWII sketch script, and, well, there was 10,000 posts, so being told before it's destruction is at the least polite. Power and head's come to mind here (not for alll mods, but for two in particular that stand out).

From what I saw, there were several notices about cleaning up the EB Tavern, these were apparently ignored so Tosa took the axe to the whole thing. The Taverners were asked to police themselves, and in the minds of Tosa and the mods, they did not. Yes, there were 10,000 posts, how much time do you expect Tosa and the mods to spend cleaning it up?

2. You then seemed to go on a banning spree when the taverners, understandably annoyed, questioned why on earth you'd delete it. I was banned for a month (completely ridiculous. A month. A MONTH. And still no-one as actually given me a reason as to why.), as was AP, subotan, and I'm sure more. This stinks, frankly, and if you can't see how it is wrong then I don't know what to say. Purging people because you don't like opinions, I thought at least, was confined to the history books, or at least China. I do not expect a personal apology, but I do expect an apology to the tavern in general.

Nobody was banned. Some members of the EB Tavern broke forum rules when protesting it's closure. Warning points were given and involuntary vacations were the result. Many members decided to use alts to get around their punishments, so they got extra points. Nobody was purged.

3. The Coup. I've just found out about this, but frankly Tosa, this is ridiculous. Are you really so sanctimonious to act as overwatch for what you have just destroyed for fear of opinions? Throwing Meth off this board (after, of course, throwing me off, how very nice of you) does seem to demonstrate a certain control freak aspect. The fact is Tosa, you cannot control people. You are not God, you are a mod, now just let the rest of us be, and all parties will benefit. I would also like to point out, that throwing people out of a group because you do not agree with them is both childish and petty.

I have no idea of what Meth did, but he is also not banned. And Tosa is not a mod, he is the site admin. The 1s and 0s that represent the Org are under his control, so he is essentially God as far as totalwar.org is concerned. This is the reality of the situation, like it or not.

I have noticed that the mods here (again, I must stress, not all) have a certain banophilic tendency when faced with an adult conversation beteween adults on a mostly adult section of the site. The tavern, remember, was created to keep spam, flaming and such off the org, which it has done, at least to some extent, and you cannot deny that. If swearing offends you, fine, but good luck in the real world. If jokes offend you, don't read on. Being offended for the sake of being offended is ridiculous eenough, but then taking action? That's, well, DAFT.

The forum rules apply to all sections of the Org, which included the EB tavern. Spam, pr0n, warez, gruesome pics, flame wars, swearing, et al, are forbidden. They were tolerated to some extent within the group, hence the complete removal.

Another thing that I find almost sickening is the complet hipocracy of the mods here. You complained to the Tavern about sexism (where?), and yet you have 'The Babe Thread'. You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

The Babe Thread has rules, and is countered by the Hunk Thread. People who post bigoted comments or troll do not go unchecked, they get warning points. Warning points and their results are not public knowledge, only account bans get published.

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

Remember, the internet is serious business. Lemur can't do anything to you about this post, his purview is the Frontroom. Tosa will probably just lock this thread, the discussion is pointless and he is busy with the vBulletin update.

This thread will only result in more warning points if it continues. It will only drag more Taverners in and start the whole cycle again.

[Gregoshi]

Ladies and gentlemen, Hitler has entered the building...

The Org is what it is. 99.99% of the patrons seem to be happy with this and have zero issues with the administration of this board. Most of the remaining 0.01% that do have issues, live and learn. The remainder play the martyr/rebel-been-wronged card and cause trouble before walking away. Civil discussion of the issue is allowed. It is when it turns nasty that banning becomes a possibility. After the discussion is done though, the choice is to accept the verdict or move elsewhere. Simple really.

BTW, if Tosa is harbouring Hitlerian fantasies, he is failing miserably.

[TinCow]

And then nominating yourself barkeep, with no permission from anyone.

That is hardly acting civil.

Tosa took over moderation of the Tavern because the assigned moderator did not do anything to edit out posts which violated Org rules. Since it became clear that even after the Tavern was deleted the first time, you were not going to properly self-regulate your social group, there were only two options available to us. First, we could just delete the group again. Second, the group could be switched over to moderation by a member of the staff. Tosa chose the option that would have the least impact on you, and in the process gave himself the extra burden of having to be responsible for editing the posts of the group, on top of everything else he does here. Your anger at him is misplaced, as Tosa actively saved the Second Tavern from being deleted.

And the internet is serious business, when it comes to my friends. Because of the sanctimonious actions of the mods herre, I have lost many friends, as our meeting place has been destroyed.

The internet is a big place, it shouldn't be very difficult to relocate to another spot if you find this one not to your liking.

[Beskar]

Looks like the circus made another appearance this week.

[Centurion1]

How does prussian iron troll. I am going to defend this poor innocent boy. And finally your audience in the tavern was not all adults. One of your common posters was Aemilius Paulus who is not 18 yet and therefore not an adult. Older than his years and intelligent? yes but he cant smoke, buy a playboy, or see an rated R movie without his mommy.

Sorry AP, but you were the first example i could think of.

Actually i may be wrong AP might be older than i think but i remeber hearing he was dual enrolled in high school and college.

either way my main point stands, leave poor PI alone, he already gets enough flak from the infamous girl help threads.

[Che Roriniho]

Okay, first, the person who was in charge of the tavern was only thuis because Tosa used my account to nominate him. He cleared up pretty well, but for one thing: the acceptence letter of Meth. Let me make this clear, Meth was never going to be in charge of the tavern. He was only in charge because Tosa made him so. I would again like to point out that there was nothing on the second tavern that warrented a closure anyway, and Tosa STILL has not got back to me as to why he threw me out of the tavern.

And as you say, the internet IS a big place, so when you remove landmarks, people get lost.

[Che Roriniho]

From what I saw, there were several notices about cleaning up the EB Tavern, these were apparently ignored so Tosa took the axe to the whole thing. The Taverners were asked to police themselves, and in the minds of Tosa and the mods, they did not. Yes, there were 10,000 posts, how much time do you expect Tosa and the mods to spend cleaning it up?


Nobody was banned. Some members of the EB Tavern broke forum rules when protesting it's closure. Warning points were given and involuntary vacations were the result. Many members decided to use alts to get around their punishments, so they got extra points. Nobody was purged.


I have no idea of what Meth did, but he is also not banned. And Tosa is not a mod, he is the site admin. The 1s and 0s that represent the Org are under his control, so he is essentially God as far as totalwar.org is concerned. This is the reality of the situation, like it or not.


The forum rules apply to all sections of the Org, which included the EB tavern. Spam, pr0n, warez, gruesome pics, flame wars, swearing, et al, are forbidden. They were tolerated to some extent within the group, hence the complete removal.


The Babe Thread has rules, and is countered by the Hunk Thread. People who post bigoted comments or troll do not go unchecked, they get warning points. Warning points and their results are not public knowledge, only account bans get published.


Remember, the internet is serious business. Lemur can't do anything to you about this post, his purview is the Frontroom. Tosa will probably just lock this thread, the discussion is pointless and he is busy with the vBulletin update.

This thread will only result in more warning points if it continues. It will only drag more Taverners in and start the whole cycle again.

I am not complaining THAT it was closed, what I am complaining about is THE MANNER with which it was closed. No warning, just banning.

Me, Subotan, and ACIN were banned, and I know for a fact that neith me nor Subo broke any rules (I can't speak for ACIN, as I don't know his situation)

We never posted Spam, pr0n, warez, gore, and more, and whilst there was swearing, it was not quite as plorific as mods/admins make out.

The fact there is a hunk thread does not detract from the fact that 'The Babe Thread' is not PG13. and yet the Tavern is not allowed.

[TinCow]

Me, Subotan, and ACIN were banned, and I know for a fact that neith me nor Subo broke any rules (I can't speak for ACIN, as I don't know the rules.

You don't know the rules, but you know you didn't break them?

[Pannonian]

Hop over to usenet if you want a forum where the membership is adult, and where the conversations are mostly unconstrained, and depending on where you go, unmoderated. Find an appropriate newsgroup to hang out in, and you can talk about whatever you like, up to the point where someone complains to your ISP. Alternatvely, create a Quicktopic messageboard.

[Che Roriniho]

@Tincow Sorry, bit of a slip there. What I meant to say was: (I can't speak for ACIN, as I don't know his situation.)

Edited the OP

[pevergreen]

Having a big social group, or a big social group post count, or being vocal or most of the stuff you do doesnt exempt you from the rules of this site.

Also: OP

BLAH BLAH BLAH WHINGE WHINGE WHINGE

get over it. Tosa has the right to get rid of anything he wants. His site, his rules.

IMO, Lemur is fine in his moderating style. I've received quite a few warning points, whereas others wouldnt, but it was after warning.


Meth is... a bit of a . He needs to grow up a bit.

[Subotan]

There's not really much I can add to Che's post, although I do disagree with certain points he made, such as the suggestion that Tosa has Hitler-esque fantasies (Although he certainly behaved quite rudely to us). So, I'm just going to refer to particular points that people have made. Again, I would appreciate it if this thread was not locked. I don't expect massive replies, but I just want to correct the assumptions that some people have.

From what I saw, there were several notices about cleaning up the EB Tavern, these were apparently ignored so Tosa took the axe to the whole thing. The Taverners were asked to police themselves, and in the minds of Tosa and the mods, they did not. Yes, there were 10,000 posts, how much time do you expect Tosa and the mods to spend cleaning it up?

By several, you mean one. Tosa would also have axed it regardless of whether we had followed his new guidelines to the letter. Personally, I think the EB Tavern has been killed off, but a warning, or at least a notification that that would happen would have been nice. An apology will suffice though.

Nobody was banned. Some members of the EB Tavern broke forum rules when protesting it's closure. Warning points were given and involuntary vacations were the result. Many members decided to use alts to get around their punishments, so they got extra points. Nobody was purged.

Many? You mean one. The other punishments for alts were dished out for the alt thread, which you can see for yourself.

I have no idea of what Meth did, but he is also not banned. And Tosa is not a mod, he is the site admin. The 1s and 0s that represent the Org are under his control, so he is essentially God as far as totalwar.org is concerned. This is the reality of the situation, like it or not.

I'm not asking for a democracy.

The forum rules apply to all sections of the Org, which included the EB tavern. Spam, pr0n, warez, gruesome pics, flame wars, swearing, et al, are forbidden. They were tolerated to some extent within the group, hence the complete removal.

The first five never occured within the EB Tavern, and in the exceptional circumstances that they did, they were then dealt with. The latter we expressed a willingness to cut down after the establishment of the second Tavern, and we did manage to by a huge amount.

The Babe Thread has rules, and is countered by the Hunk Thread. People who post bigoted comments or troll do not go unchecked, they get warning points. Warning points and their results are not public knowledge, only account bans get published.

Personally, I feel that the Babe/Hunk threads by their very nature are worse than anything that ever occurred in the EB Tavern.

This thread will only result in more warning points if it continues. It will only drag more Taverners in and start the whole cycle again.

Civil discussion of the issue is allowed. It is when it turns nasty that banning becomes a possibility.

I hope not. I am going to stay civil, so there shouldn't be any need for locks.

Remember, the internet is serious business.

The Internet; serious business.

CR

This is something that has grated me for quite a while. Apparently, when we protest at the destruction of our social group, akin to the obliteration of the backroom, that is taking the internet too seriously. And yet, the various moderators, admins and certain patrons are treating it as if it were an inhuman scourge upon the .Org, that must be wiped out at all costs. The opposition to the re-establishment of a sensible, self-moderated Tavern is way out of proportion.

Ladies and gentlemen, Hitler has entered the building...
The Org is what it is. 99.99% of the patrons seem to be happy with this and have zero issues with the administration of this board. Most of the remaining 0.01% that do have issues, live and learn. The remainder play the martyr/rebel-been-wronged card and cause trouble before walking away.

I'd say it was more than 0.01%, if we define patrons as regular users.

[TinCow]

The first five never occured within the EB Tavern, and in the exceptional circumstances that they did, they were then dealt with. The latter we expressed a willingness to cut down after the establishment of the second Tavern, and we did manage to by a huge amount.


Personally, I feel that the Babe/Hunk threads by their very nature are worse than anything that ever occurred in the EB Tavern.

All the Mods saw the state of the Tavern before it was wiped. It was honestly the single worst thing I have ever seen on the Org. There are many Tavern members who are lucky to not have been permanently banned right then and there. Several suggestions were made about how to handle the Tavern, and you might be surprised to know that Tosa's choice to take no action against any individual poster was far, far more lenient than the actions any of the Mods were suggesting. Needless to say, I find all protestations that the Tavern was remotely in-line with Org rules to be exceptionally questionable.

That said, for the last several weeks the Second Tavern has generally been very well behaved. Please do keep it up.

The opposition to the re-establishment of a sensible, self-moderated Tavern is way out of proportion.

The Tavern has failed to police itself on numerous occasions. The infractions before the wipe were so numerous that they took up pages of the Mod reported posts forum. After the wipe, the Second Tavern was allowed to moderate itself, and failed to do so once again. Perhaps if you can prove that your current improvement in behavior is honest and not just because we are watching you, Tosa will return moderation of the group to you. I would expect such proof to take a few months.

[drone]

By several, you mean one. Tosa would also have axed it regardless of whether we had followed his new guidelines to the letter. Personally, I think the EB Tavern has been killed off, but a warning, or at least a notification that that would happen would have been nice. An apology will suffice though.

I seem to remember at least 2, but I may be thinking of something else.

Many? You mean one. The other punishments for alts were dished out for the alt thread, which you can see for yourself.

I can't see the warnings, and I can't tie the alts to the original accounts. I'm guessing on a lot of this.

Personally, I feel that the Babe/Hunk threads by their very nature are worse than anything that ever occurred in the EB Tavern.

Since it's inception, the Babe Thread has been locked several times due to inappropriate posts (either anatomical or themed). I believe there has been much discussion between the Frontroom mods and Tosa about it, it remains mainly due to it's constant surveillance by the Frontroom staff.

This is something that has grated me for quite a while. Apparently, when we protest at the destruction of our social group, akin to the obliteration of the backroom, that is taking the internet too seriously. And yet, the various moderators, admins and certain patrons are treating it as if it were an inhuman scourge upon the .Org, that must be wiped out at all costs. The opposition to the re-establishment of a sensible, self-moderated Tavern is way out of proportion.

Taking the internet too seriously is what the OP is all about.

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

I mean, really? Nothing will be gained with posts like this.

I never read the EB Tavern, I never got involved in the offshoot discussions. But it appears that it took up a fair amount of Org bandwidth, for a few select folks, with no real supervision. Why not have the Tavern discussions with the rest of the membership? Why not have a tank discussion in the Monastery? Or other off-topic discussions in the Front/Backroom? There are only 2 reasons I see the EB Tavern existed: to either exclude other members from the discussion or skirt the rules of the regularly moderated board. And neither of those are very good reasons.

[Subotan]

I seem to remember at least 2, but I may be thinking of something else.

No, the alts bans were prior to the deletion of the EB Tavern. I was just mucking around with my alt in that particular thread.

I can't see the warnings, and I can't tie the alts to the original accounts. I'm guessing on a lot of this.s.

I was banned for having one (Socrates on Wheels), despite the fact that it said that they would be banned if they caused trouble. AP was then banned for boasting that he could get around them. And Azathoth was banned for using them.

Since it's inception, the Babe Thread has been locked several times due to inappropriate posts (either anatomical or themed). I believe there has been much discussion between the Frontroom mods and Tosa about it, it remains mainly due to it's constant surveillance by the Frontroom staff.

And yet the whole thing has never been deleted...

But I digress. That's just my personal opinion. I'm not calling for it to be deleted. I just don't visit it.

I never read the EB Tavern, I never got involved in the offshoot discussions. But it appears that it took up a fair amount of Org bandwidth, for a few select folks, with no real supervision. Why not have the Tavern discussions with the rest of the membership? Why not have a tank discussion in the Monastery? Or other off-topic discussions in the Front/Backroom? .

Anybody could join, and most people did. It's just the majority of them didn't post. As it was mainly just one big long thread, running to over 1,500 pages, it wouldn't be permitted to have a big rolling thread about what was mostly inane subjects and what would probably be described as "spam" (Man, that's such an overused word on this board).

here are only 2 reasons I see the EB Tavern existed: to either exclude other members from the discussion or skirt the rules of the regularly moderated board. And neither of those are very good reasons.

Fair points. However, the former was never ever the intention of the baord, and we promoted the Tavern in the rest of the .Org (You can still see the links on some members sigs). And the latter may have been an end result (And even then, only the swearing rule, which we later agreed to abide to most of the time) of the situation of the EB Tavern, isolated from the rest of the .Org, as a "core" membership posted the majority of the posts.

[Crazed Rabbit]

This is something that has grated me for quite a while. Apparently, when we protest at the destruction of our social group, akin to the obliteration of the backroom, that is taking the internet too seriously. And yet, the various moderators, admins and certain patrons are treating it as if it were an inhuman scourge upon the .Org, that must be wiped out at all costs. The opposition to the re-establishment of a sensible, self-moderated Tavern is way out of proportion.

No, respectfully bringing up perceived problems with moderation is not "taking it too seriously".

This:

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them.

However, is.

And whatever the appropriateness of the babe thread, going by American movie ratings, the content is "PG-13".

CR

[Centurion1]

i dont even look at the bloody babe thread they have clothes on, wheres the fun in that.

[Beefy187]

i dont even look at the bloody babe thread they have clothes on, wheres the fun in that.

Imagine

[Andres]

Let's start from the beginning:

1. You did not inform the tavern when you closed it down. There was many things on there which we ewould have wanted to keep, such as AP and AS's tank debate, my WWII sketch script, and, well, there was 10,000 posts, so being told before it's destruction is at the least polite. Power and head's come to mind here (not for alll mods, but for two in particular that stand out).

At least two Watchtower threads were made in which it was clearly stated that .Org rules apply to social groups.

There was a lot of, pardon my french, filth in the Tavern. We are all volunteers here, most of us have a full time job/are studying, have a wive or girlfriend and many mods also have children. There were way too much messages to go through; since there was also enough filth in the tavern, it was decided to just delete it

We gave you guys the freedom to have your social group and we expected you to moderate yourselves. Apparently, we expected too much. You could have prevented the deletion of the EB Tavern by NOT making so many rule violating messages. You could als have told you fellow .Org taverners when they crossed the line and you could have asked your friends to tone it down; you could have reported bad messages; you could have contacted a moderator about certain issues. None of that happened.

Until one day we took a look and noticed you guys were NOT moderating yourselves and our trust and confidence were grossly abused.

Don't blame us for deleting the EB Tavern, please.

2. You then seemed to go on a banning spree when the taverners, understandably annoyed, questioned why on earth you'd delete it. I was banned for a month (completely ridiculous. A month. A MONTH. And still no-one as actually given me a reason as to why.), as was AP, subotan, and I'm sure more. This stinks, frankly, and if you can't see how it is wrong then I don't know what to say. Purging people because you don't like opinions, I thought at least, was confined to the history books, or at least China. I do not expect a personal apology, but I do expect an apology to the tavern in general.

We didn't purge people because their opinions were not liked by staff. We didn't purge anyone.

There were rule violations and action has been taken. Your perception is wrong.

3. The Coup. I've just found out about this, but frankly Tosa, this is ridiculous. Are you really so sanctimonious to act as overwatch for what you have just destroyed for fear of opinions? Throwing Meth off this board (after, of course, throwing me off, how very nice of you) does seem to demonstrate a certain control freak aspect. The fact is Tosa, you cannot control people. You are not God, you are a mod, now just let the rest of us be, and all parties will benefit. I would also like to point out, that throwing people out of a group because you do not agree with them is both childish and petty.

"The Coup"? Really

The Second EB Tavern (in fact the 5th or 6th?) was better than the previous one, but still not good enough.

Moderators posted in there to explain the rules and to ask you guys to respect the rules. Those posts were deleted by the person who "maintained" the group, while posts containing swear words and other violations were not.

Since Meth apparently wasn't capable of moderating the group, just like the previous person who maintained the group, btw, we had to decide: delete it again and no more EB Tavern or have a staff member moderate it.

Tosa saved your precious EB Tavern. Instead of yelling at him, you should be thankful.

I have noticed that the mods here (again, I must stress, not all) have a certain banophilic tendency when faced with an adult conversation beteween adults on a mostly adult section of the site.

There is no such thing as an "adult section" on this site.

Unless some of you lie about their birth date, some of you are also not adults.

The tavern, remember, was created to keep spam, flaming and such off the org, which it has done, at least to some extent, and you cannot deny that. If swearing offends you, fine, but good luck in the real world. If jokes offend you, don't read on. Being offended for the sake of being offended is ridiculous eenough, but then taking action? That's, well, DAFT.

It's called Guild rules and enforcing them. You agreed with those rules when creating an account.

If you don't like our rules, you have only two options:
a) swallow your pride and accept;
b) leave

Another thing that I find almost sickening is the complet hipocracy of the mods here. You complained to the Tavern about sexism (where?), and yet you have 'The Babe Thread'. You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

The Babe thread is strictly regulated.

I suggest you edit out your personal attacks against fellow .Org members.

I expect that either Tosa or Lemur, due to the dangerous level of opinion in this post, will either delete it or ban me. That, or take me out the back and shoot me in the back of the skull with a 9mm, which would certainly please both of them. But I will repost if it is deleted, as opinions have 2 outcomes. Either they stay forever, or are countered. You cannot fight opinion with fire.

Again, there's no need for those personal attacks against fellow .Org members. Those accusations are way out of line. Nobody here will shoot you with a 9mm.

I hate to use such a cheap expression, but it does aptly describe the situation, but, to mods, taverners and general .orgers: Man up, and grow a pair.

If you hate it, than don't use such expressions. It's inappropriate, not civil and very disrespectful. They also, technically, violate .Org rules.

[Fragony]

You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

So who the hell are you then? I keep to the rules, I get a warning if I don't, I do not go unchecked I get the same treatment as everybody else. If you are too much of a wuss for the backroom stay the hell out. This is not only insulting for me but also for the moderators. Love your commitment to free speech by the way.

[Cute Wolf]

You let bigots such as Fragony and Trolls such as Prussian Iron to continue unchecked, but yet whenever someone who does not brown nose anything with power comes along and make the same, if not tamer, remarks, anfd you ban them, that that, my friends is BLATANT hypocrisy.

So who the hell are you then? I keep to the rules, I get a warning if I don't, I do not go unchecked I get the same treatment as everybody else. If you are too much of a wuss for the backroom stay the hell out. This is not only insulting for me but also for the moderators.

And Fragony was actually a really nice guy if you want to know

Come on... everyone here is a friend .... just don't insult anyone too much...

[Hosakawa Tito]

Shoo fly.