A question about guard mode with phalanx pikemen

**mrjade06** · 02-13-2010, 13:40

Thanks a lot...I have been using pike units awhile and never really took guard mode off until recently, and when I did I began to take some horrific casualties. But thank you very much for explaining exactly how and to use it and not to.

**stratigos vasilios** · 02-13-2010, 15:28

I think I remember reading somewhere that when your defending city walls, the pike units on the wall should have guard mode turned off? I can't remember why or how it's more effective, (hopefully someone can jump in here). Sorry it's a useless reply, but I guess someone can maybe help me out now :P

**Andy1984** · 02-13-2010, 16:53

I've never used pike units on walls, but it makes sense. Pikes that have guard mode off are more likely to follow an opponent (that is standing next and not only in front of the soldier), while they move towards their opponents if they've killed the first row. If they wouldn't attack these guys, they'd be subject to first strikes of their opponents, thereby taking more casualties. Fighting on a wall is just a very specific case of an attack in the flanks (where you're forced to use your secondary weapons).

**mrjade06** · 02-13-2010, 17:07

yeah I've never used pike units on walls so that wasnt the issue. Something that drives me crazy about pike units is when the ai walks cavalry (not even good cavalry either mind you) right into them and then just starts mauling them, I was hoping having guard mode off would do something to help that. As for the hoplites I still havent decided how to truly use them effectively. I only started playing EB 2 weeks ago (unfortunately) despite playing RTW and various other mods for years on end, so I'm basically a little lost on what to do with them to use them effectively...whether to stand and take a charge from the enemy, charge themselves and whether to have guard mode on or off on them. Thanks for all the advice so far.

**Cambyses** · 02-13-2010, 17:24

As a general rule, low lethality = guard mode on, high lethality = guard mode off. Frontal attack = guard mode on, flanking = guard mode off.

A Hoplite unit's greatest strength is its durability and strong defensive qualities with the tight formation. Guard mode keeps them in that formation. Although it does of course depend on what you are fighting.

**Weebeast** · 02-13-2010, 20:08

Since I don't deploy hoplites that often, I can't give you any tips on them. Maybe someone else can.

I think it works the same for all unit. Every single man in a unit stays in their position and only fight when the enemy soldier engages him. The purpose of guard mode is to take less casualty while inflicting less at the same time. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I actually use guard mode on all spears that I specifically train to hold my line. I turn it off only if I know my lighter troops (or whatever is the designated flankers/ wingmen) can't finish their job and thus unable to flank the units attacking my spears/pikes.

**vartan** · 02-13-2010, 21:01

Originally Posted by Cambyses

As a general rule, low lethality = guard mode on, high lethality = guard mode off. Frontal attack = guard mode on, flanking = guard mode off.

A Hoplite unit's greatest strength is its durability and strong defensive qualities with the tight formation. Guard mode keeps them in that formation. Although it does of course depend on what you are fighting.

OP should look into this reply by Cambyses. It is well-said, regardless of the fact that it is generalization.
Frontally, I see no use in having a lowered-pike phalanx turn guard off--it only makes you lose men.

As for hoplites, defensively the guard mode allows them to hold their ground for longer amounts of time, wearing down enemy troops, which will eventually rout given enough time. If you are attacking frontally with hoplites, offensively that is, you will want to take guard off. When attacking, you look to kill, not simply tire. In one specific game, my imperial Roman army was losing from the front and in the center, because Saka heavy hoplites were pushing with guard off (a bit more staggered than a block, but very offensive and very clearly deadly; think of the scenes in 300 when the men break formation and all hell breaks loose). If it weren't for my flanking maneuvers, that battle would have been Saka's for the taking.

**mrjade06** · 02-13-2010, 21:18

Once again thanks all for the advice. One thing that I can not quite understand is when in heavy combat, my pike units tend to get seperated occasionally and I will have a guy from the phalanx 'fighting' the whole way across the map by himself and will not rejoin the formation. Any pointer on how to prevent this or get them to properly regroup and reform?