Historical Question.

**Iraklis** · 03-18-2010, 11:01

Thanks Macilrille for fast answering, i was kind of leaning to such a posibility my self tho with out the apropriate knowledge making theorys 90% of the time leads to wrong results. Thanks for the info!

**Macilrille** · 03-18-2010, 11:10

Maybe others have more up-to-date info, but that one is what I have read 6 years ago. Re-enactors may have proved or disproved them.

**Titus Marcellus Scato** · 03-18-2010, 11:57

I think the first two ranks could throw them, but the two ranks would need to space themselves out, the first rank moving further forward before throwing than the second. Javelins were aimed upward so that they didn't fly past the heads of the men in the rank ahead. And I don't think the two ranks 'pulled back' after moving forward to throw their missiles - they stayed where they were to receive the enemy charge.

**Hannibal Khan the Great** · 03-18-2010, 12:58

Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

And I don't think the two ranks 'pulled back' after moving forward to throw their missiles - they stayed where they were to receive the enemy charge.

Well, if the troops were used mostly in melee anyway, they would stand and fight, but for example Akontistai would retreat. They are simply too light for melee.

**Poulp'** · 03-18-2010, 14:08

... and probably the third and following ranks would move forward to regroup with the first and second ranks.
I don't picture a thin line of men winning the pushing match.

**Macilrille** · 03-18-2010, 14:31

If indeed it was a pushing match. I have problems with that interpretation, especially as it was originally suggested by English historians whose closest frame of reference for a melee was a rugby match. However, rugby players do not have short nasty swords with which to stab the pushing opponent.

**Duguntz** · 03-18-2010, 16:02

Originally Posted by Macilrille

. However, rugby players do not have short nasty swords with which to stab the pushing opponent.

Now THAT would make Rugby interesting! :D

**Titus Marcellus Scato** · 03-18-2010, 18:51

Originally Posted by Hannibal Khan the Great

Well, if the troops were used mostly in melee anyway, they would stand and fight, but for example Akontistai would retreat. They are simply too light for melee.

Oh, light skirmishers are a different matter. They actually didn't have a 'formation' like heavier infantry. They didn't attack as a tightly packed unit, but as a cloud of individuals just doing their own thing, throwing missiles whenever they saw a target within range.

Closely packed heavier infantry needed to use discipline to avoid jostling and getting in each other's way - they needed to loose their missiles only on an officer's order, not whenever they felt like it.

**vartan** · 03-18-2010, 22:05

Exactly. Skirmishing units used much looser formations. Certainly looser than Roman legionnaires. Not 3 feet apart, or 5 feet apart, but more, these men would probably have space enough to produce momentum and throw their spears. Would they use spear-throwers? Perhaps some would. This would increase range. The javelin is one of my favourite parts of the summer olympics. I can't wait.