is there free will?

[The Stranger]

I don't understand this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Angst

its sartre's philosophy based mostly on kierkegaard and heidegger's philosophy.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism#Angst

its sartre's philosophy based mostly on kierkegaard and heidegger's philosophy.

Angst, sometimes called dread, anxiety or even anguish is a term that is common to many existentialist thinkers. It is generally held to be the experience of humans' freedom and responsibility. The archetypal example is the experience one has when standing on a cliff where one not only fears falling off it, but also dreads the possibility of throwing oneself off. In this experience that "nothing is holding me back", one senses the lack of anything that predetermines one to either throw oneself off or to stand still, and one experiences one's own freedom.

There's a simple psychological mechanism for that "dread the possibility of throwing yourself off" bit though. The only way to make sure you don't do something is to have like a process running that checks to see if you are doing it. But the awareness of that check can be anxiety inducing.

That's the trouble with trying to answer psychological questions with philosophy. I don't find it to be an argument for free will anyway, because in that situation I wouldn't really be worried about my choosing to throw myself off the cliff of my own free will, but of something making me jump off the cliff against my will.

[drone]

Of course!

[The Stranger]

There's a simple psychological mechanism for that "dread the possibility of throwing yourself off" bit though. The only way to make sure you don't do something is to have like a process running that checks to see if you are doing it. But the awareness of that check can be anxiety inducing.

That's the trouble with trying to answer psychological questions with philosophy. I don't find it to be an argument for free will anyway, because in that situation I wouldn't really be worried about my choosing to throw myself off the cliff of my own free will, but of something making me jump off the cliff against my will.

i think the example sux... if i have time ill try to give good one.

[Reenk Roink]

Everything is predestined from eternity even one's choices, so they don't have free will in the commonly thought sense of being able to choose differently.

im also trying to find a definition of will or free will in which the rational element is excluded. we are free as a body i believe. i will explain more after dinner.

If you take a (naively) non deterministic view of the world, then human actions aren't caused or influenced by anything, "rational" considerations or not. So if you wish to go that way you can have it.

[Beskar]

Everything is predestined from eternity even one's choices, so they don't have free will in the commonly thought sense of being able to choose differently.

This has always been an interesting point of view especially with religion such as Christianity which believes in redemption. Hypothetically, if there is no free will then what is the point in redemption? As the end result, the Lord Almighty will know that we will commit sin and in the same breath the Lord Almighty would know if we will redeem ourselves or not. then the act of redemption becomes trivial as ultimately we are slaves to our destiny and we do not have the choice to redeem ourselves, as our fate has already been decided.

[Reenk Roink]

This has always been an interesting point of view especially with religion such as Christianity which believes in redemption. Hypothetically, if there is no free will then what is the point in redemption? As the end result, the Lord Almighty will know that we will commit sin and in the same breath the Lord Almighty would know if we will redeem ourselves or not. then the act of redemption becomes trivial as ultimately we are slaves to our destiny and we do not have the choice to redeem ourselves, as our fate has already been decided.

The problem comes because many people seem to require a sense of free will for moral responsibility (in both secular and religious contexts).

Aquinas made a really good case for double predestination (of the elect and the damned), even though I don't think it's an idea the Catholic Church endorses (correct me if I'm wrong Catholics).

[The Stranger]

The problem comes because many people seem to require a sense of free will for moral responsibility (in both secular and religious contexts).

Aquinas made a really good case for double predestination (of the elect and the damned), even though I don't think it's an idea the Catholic Church endorses (correct me if I'm wrong Catholics).

i dont know... aquinas is one of the major authorithies for christianity and has been redeemed quit alot since the 19th century. so its much possible.

[The Stranger]

Everything is predestined from eternity even one's choices, so they don't have free will in the commonly thought sense of being able to choose differently.



If you take a (naively) non deterministic view of the world, then human actions aren't caused or influenced by anything, "rational" considerations or not. So if you wish to go that way you can have it.

wow reenk how very constructive of you haha... who the hell is being naive thinking he has knowledge. that he knows the truth of anything?

if everything is predestined, by what is it predestined?