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  1. #1

    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Quote Originally Posted by oudysseos View Post
    Though there will be more chariots in EB II than in EB I, there is still a sever limiting factor to their use: as far as the game engine goes, they are really elephants with highly modified models and animations- but they will still behave like elephants. That restricts what we can do with them (getting them to skirmish correctly is proving difficult), so don't expect dozens of chariot units.
    Why are the chariot companies based off elephant models instead of horse cavalry models?
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  2. #2
    Parthian Cataphract #03452 Member Zradha Pahlavan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    I know next to nothing about the modeling process, but my best guess is that the elephant unit models have a larger space around each individual elephant in the unit than the horse companies do for each individual horseman. Chariots, which need more room to turn than a dude on horseback, would need the extra space, hence using the elephant model as a base.
    Last edited by Zradha Pahlavan; 04-09-2010 at 20:40. Reason: my english needs work
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Zradha Pahlavan View Post
    I know next to nothing about the modeling process, but my best guess is that the elephant unit models have a larger space around each individual elephant in the unit than the horse companies do for each individual horseman. Chariots, which need more room to turn than a dude on horseback, would need the extra space, hence using the elephant model as a base.
    Regardless of the model, is there any mechanism in the game engine that allows you to modify unit spacing? I've heard of spacing as an attribute of units in EBI. Is this lacking in EBII?
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  4. #4
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    Regardless of the model, is there any mechanism in the game engine that allows you to modify unit spacing? I've heard of spacing as an attribute of units in EBI. Is this lacking in EBII?
    I don't think spacing is the problem. Chariots are treated as elephants to represent the momentum of a chariot charge, as well as the capability fire missiles independently of moving. The melee attack is less important. Since chariots were used as missile rather than melee platforms, this was considered the least unrealistic option.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Ludens View Post
    ...as well as the capability fire missiles independently of moving...
    And horse cavalry somehow seem to have no problem firing missiles even though they are on the move. What do you mean by momentum when it comes to the game? If we're talking about charge, that's just another variable number, right?

    EDIT: Don't want to sound meticulous, just want to learn something.
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  6. #6
    Member Megas Methuselah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Quote Originally Posted by vartan View Post
    EDIT: Don't want to sound meticulous, just want to learn something.
    I agree with you. The EB Team probably has a good reason I'd like to hear out.

  7. #7
    JEBMMP Creator & AtB Maker Member jirisys's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah View Post
    I agree with you. The EB Team probably has a good reason I'd like to hear out.
    I bet it's because when you charge with cavalry, they stop, they have not enough force to penetrate easily, i mean, you can charge very powerfully, but eventually the troops would stop you, that is not the case with elephants, they are not stopped by infantry or cavalry due to their mass and (when charging) momentum, so it would be better applied to a chariot (since two horses + wheels + wooden plate = ripping through enemy lines very easily)

    Side note: why don't you put the trait "Intimidates cavalry" to the spearmen (especially phalanxes) since horses are reluctant to charge into a wall of spears, just a suggestion

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  8. #8
    Member Member Bucefalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scythed Chariot Question

    Chariots are based on elephants in the fact that they both share the same behaviour on battle. I think they are actually a whole unit class, apart from infantry or cavalry. There are several differencies between how chariots/elephants behave in battle compared to cavalry, here are some:

    -Chariots/elephants can run down soldiers without actually killing them, only knocking them down. I think this is related to the mass of the mount, but i also think part of it is determined throught the unit type. I have not seen yet any infantry knocking down enemies on the charge, no matter how high mass they have.

    -Chariots/elephants act like a hammer, they push into the enemy lines and then they lose most of their fighting power. This is similar to cavalry, but the actual animations of the chariots/elephants are much different and generally they first break the enemy ranks, then continue forward a bit, and then turn back to attack the enemy. A cavalry unit just charges in and do casualties on the charge, then they stay there in the front of the enemy unit and use their secondary weapons.

    -I am not totally sure about this, but i think that this unit class (chariot/elephant) is vulnerable to thrown weapons (like javelins) much like the cavalry class is vulnerable to spearmen.

    There are probably more differences but i hope those few serve to show the example, basically they are a different class of unit, neither cavalry or infantry, and they have their own behaviour in battle which is very different from the other two. Just watch closely how elephants and chariots behave in EBI and you will realise that except for their stats, models, textures and animations they share a lot of things.

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