Scythed Chariot Question

[Zradha Pahlavan]

I know next to nothing about the modeling process, but my best guess is that the elephant unit models have a larger space around each individual elephant in the unit than the horse companies do for each individual horseman. Chariots, which need more room to turn than a dude on horseback, would need the extra space, hence using the elephant model as a base.

[vartan]

I know next to nothing about the modeling process, but my best guess is that the elephant unit models have a larger space around each individual elephant in the unit than the horse companies do for each individual horseman. Chariots, which need more room to turn than a dude on horseback, would need the extra space, hence using the elephant model as a base.

Regardless of the model, is there any mechanism in the game engine that allows you to modify unit spacing? I've heard of spacing as an attribute of units in EBI. Is this lacking in EBII?

[Ludens]

Regardless of the model, is there any mechanism in the game engine that allows you to modify unit spacing? I've heard of spacing as an attribute of units in EBI. Is this lacking in EBII?

I don't think spacing is the problem. Chariots are treated as elephants to represent the momentum of a chariot charge, as well as the capability fire missiles independently of moving. The melee attack is less important. Since chariots were used as missile rather than melee platforms, this was considered the least unrealistic option.

[vartan]

...as well as the capability fire missiles independently of moving...

And horse cavalry somehow seem to have no problem firing missiles even though they are on the move. What do you mean by momentum when it comes to the game? If we're talking about charge, that's just another variable number, right?

EDIT: Don't want to sound meticulous, just want to learn something.

[Megas Methuselah]

EDIT: Don't want to sound meticulous, just want to learn something.

I agree with you. The EB Team probably has a good reason I'd like to hear out.

[jirisys]

I agree with you. The EB Team probably has a good reason I'd like to hear out.

I bet it's because when you charge with cavalry, they stop, they have not enough force to penetrate easily, i mean, you can charge very powerfully, but eventually the troops would stop you, that is not the case with elephants, they are not stopped by infantry or cavalry due to their mass and (when charging) momentum, so it would be better applied to a chariot (since two horses + wheels + wooden plate = ripping through enemy lines very easily)

Side note: why don't you put the trait "Intimidates cavalry" to the spearmen (especially phalanxes) since horses are reluctant to charge into a wall of spears, just a suggestion

~Jirisys (

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Newton's second law states that the force applied to a body produces a proportional acceleration; the relationship between the two is

F=ma

where F is the net force applied, m is the mass of the body, and a is the body's acceleration. If the body is subject to multiple forces at the same time, then the net force is the vector sum of the individual forces:

F= F1+F2+...+Fn

The second law also states that the net force is equal to the time derivative of the body's momentum p:

F=ma=m(dv/dt) = dmv/dt = dp/dt

where, since the law is valid only for constant-mass systems, the mass can be taken inside the differentiation operator by the constant factor rule in differentiation. Any mass that is gained or lost by the system will cause a change in momentum that is not the result of an external force. A different equation is necessary for variable-mass systems.

Consistent with the first law, the time derivative of the momentum is non-zero when the momentum changes direction, even if there is no change in its magnitude (see time derivative). The relationship also implies the conservation of momentum: when the net force on the body is zero, the momentum of the body is constant. This can be said easily. Net force is equal to rate of change of momentum for those who are unfamiliar with calculus.

Newton's second law requires modification if the effects of special relativity are to be taken into account, since it is no longer true that momentum is the product of inertial mass and velocity.

... Ho...ly.... ****)

[A Very Super Market]

Units that scare other units have an area of effect. Giving all spearmen elephant-like ability to terrify cavalry would cause horses to get panicky just because a a few hoplites are several yards to their left. Obviously, this was not the case, or we would have graduated from horses and moved onto motor vehicles long ago.

[Bucefalo]

Chariots are based on elephants in the fact that they both share the same behaviour on battle. I think they are actually a whole unit class, apart from infantry or cavalry. There are several differencies between how chariots/elephants behave in battle compared to cavalry, here are some:

-Chariots/elephants can run down soldiers without actually killing them, only knocking them down. I think this is related to the mass of the mount, but i also think part of it is determined throught the unit type. I have not seen yet any infantry knocking down enemies on the charge, no matter how high mass they have.

-Chariots/elephants act like a hammer, they push into the enemy lines and then they lose most of their fighting power. This is similar to cavalry, but the actual animations of the chariots/elephants are much different and generally they first break the enemy ranks, then continue forward a bit, and then turn back to attack the enemy. A cavalry unit just charges in and do casualties on the charge, then they stay there in the front of the enemy unit and use their secondary weapons.

-I am not totally sure about this, but i think that this unit class (chariot/elephant) is vulnerable to thrown weapons (like javelins) much like the cavalry class is vulnerable to spearmen.

There are probably more differences but i hope those few serve to show the example, basically they are a different class of unit, neither cavalry or infantry, and they have their own behaviour in battle which is very different from the other two. Just watch closely how elephants and chariots behave in EBI and you will realise that except for their stats, models, textures and animations they share a lot of things.

[Zradha Pahlavan]

-I am not totally sure about this, but i think that this unit class (chariot/elephant) is vulnerable to thrown weapons (like javelins) much like the cavalry class is vulnerable to spearmen.

Oh, it is. Numidian skirmishers and Parthian horse archers can wipe the floor with elephants.

[Cute Wolf]

Chariots are based on elephants in the fact that they both share the same behaviour on battle. I think they are actually a whole unit class, apart from infantry or cavalry. There are several differencies between how chariots/elephants behave in battle compared to cavalry, here are some:

-Chariots/elephants can run down soldiers without actually killing them, only knocking them down. I think this is related to the mass of the mount, but i also think part of it is determined throught the unit type. I have not seen yet any infantry knocking down enemies on the charge, no matter how high mass they have.

-Chariots/elephants act like a hammer, they push into the enemy lines and then they lose most of their fighting power. This is similar to cavalry, but the actual animations of the chariots/elephants are much different and generally they first break the enemy ranks, then continue forward a bit, and then turn back to attack the enemy. A cavalry unit just charges in and do casualties on the charge, then they stay there in the front of the enemy unit and use their secondary weapons.

-I am not totally sure about this, but i think that this unit class (chariot/elephant) is vulnerable to thrown weapons (like javelins) much like the cavalry class is vulnerable to spearmen.

There are probably more differences but i hope those few serve to show the example, basically they are a different class of unit, neither cavalry or infantry, and they have their own behaviour in battle which is very different from the other two. Just watch closely how elephants and chariots behave in EBI and you will realise that except for their stats, models, textures and animations they share a lot of things.

I'm thrilled to see Charots will be able to break up wooden walls and gates in EB II

Maybe to gain a "skirmish" traits, you can switch their class to "skirmish cavalry", that class, as far as memory can tel, always give their "skirmish" ability, even with pure melee units.