What are the main things you want to see fixed from EB1 in EB2???

[Foot]

will their be mechanics to represent degrees of assimilation rather than just the generic 'unrest' feature? i know that MTWII has religion and such.

also, how will the '-ization' process work? I hate when i take a city like Carthage, for instance, but it is at its highest level of Administration building so that even long after the culture/government would be romanized, it would still have mostly semitic buildings? I really like hellenizing europe, and for RTW the Strategy Map representation changes at the next level of government building, which usually coincides with the end of huge culture penalties

Those are two very different things how a settlement looks is not associated with any game mechanics that we can introduce and modify as for colonization, you should probably check out the roman previews-

Foot

[geala]

I'm rather pleased with EB 1, my only wish would be better (historically more accurate, I mean) Greek units. I think that will happen.

[vartan]

historically more accurate

What does this mean anymore? History has room for more than one interpretation. That is why when 20 students turn in papers for a single prompt, and none of them answers the same way as any other, none of them fails for the simple fact that they did not achieve a single correct answer. EB has provided us with an interpretation of history that--and it is important to remember this--has not been constant, and has changed over time. I don't take it for granted because when entering in factional unit lists for EB Online I see name changes over and over again for units. Flexibility is a great trait in history.

[Ca Putt]

anything in particular you would like to suggest?

[Olaf The Great]

I suppose another thing I'd wish for is a more complete barbarian roster, an perhaps a "reformed pastoralism" government for the other nomads and possibly the barbarians.

[fomalhaut]

a more full Barbarian roster would definitely help, mid-late game are very rough on Barbarian factions. As eastern factions, Pahlava in particular, you keep getting new units until the very end.

This is an issue with everyone except the Getai i'd say, but in particular with the Lusotan. a very basic and effective roster, but after you can train Celtiberian Infantry you are kind of out on soldiers.

[Moros]

a more full Barbarian roster would definitely help, mid-late game are very rough on Barbarian factions. As eastern factions, Pahlava in particular, you keep getting new units until the very end.

This is an issue with everyone except the Getai i'd say, but in particular with the Lusotan. a very basic and effective roster, but after you can train Celtiberian Infantry you are kind of out on soldiers.

How can this be an issue for the gauls? They have two reforms during the span of the game! The casse have reforms as well and the Sweboz also unlock some units. The Iberians might not have reforms to offer but a very diverse selection of regionals and perhaps the best barbarian units. With their ap falcata's, ap soliferra and lots of armour for a barbarian faction!

[fomalhaut]

perhaps the span is just too close together, doesn't take long to conquer Iberian Peninsula and beyond that there isn't much of interest. Maybe I'm just using the unfair comparison of Pahlavan which has such a wide roster, from every Indian Unit to the long term reform. I had almost completed the game before i had Persian Hoplites and Theurophoroi.

[Olaf The Great]

It's also the buildings that are the problem too.
Factions like Romani and Pahlava have an obscene amount of buildings to choose that give a wide range of effects(+health +trade +mining) while the Barbarians, in comparison, get very very little with no real advantage on their part. It's true that during this period none of the barbarian factions(with the exception of the Getai, who -really- need an building tune up) achieved the level of sophistication that the others did, but they should get a "what if" reform similar to Hayasdan's.

Especially with Sauromatae and Saka Rauka I get the feeling that "Well I can just play Pahlava/Hayasdan/Baktria and get all this plus more"

[athanaric]

What I'd like to see is mercenary ships and some more thorough reforms for the Saka faction (i.e. not only the military aspect).

How can this be an issue for the gauls? They have two reforms during the span of the game! The casse have reforms as well and the Sweboz also unlock some units. The Iberians might not have reforms to offer but a very diverse selection of regionals and perhaps the best barbarian units. With their ap falcata's, ap soliferra and lots of armour for a barbarian faction!

Lusotannan are also the only Barbarian faction able to recruit siege weapons.

[TheLastDays]

Well iirc (I haven't played M2TW seriously in a long time) the engine had mercenary ships... at least when on a crusade I definitely remember recruiting mercenary ships to get to the Holy Land... so it should be possible - if it's reasonable or makes sense is up to the team ;)

[fomalhaut]

right but the logistics of that; "hey let me plant my huge army here and wait patiently until a ship comes by"
it never made sense to me in MTWII

[vartan]

right but the logistics of that; "hey let me plant my huge army here and wait patiently until a ship comes by"
it never made sense to me in MTWII

If we're talking frequented, busy ports that were points of launch for major campaigns a la crusades, then it's quite reasonable, if you can afford it (you're probably the king).

[fomalhaut]

is there a way to restrict the recruitment to just ports or that area? i could hire boats anywhere on the coast of MTWII.

[Ca Putt]

more sensible than beeing stuck on land with a huge army and plenty of wood until a city far away is captured. it sure would be less iritating when you'd have the option to "build" them over the construction menu. one could nerf the hireable ships to let them better represent this mix of on-spot crafted vessels and more reliable pirates.

[fomalhaut]

ok, that definitely makes more sense. i didn't consider that could just be a representation of them using resources around them, chiefly 60,000 bored soldiers and wood to create them.

[moonburn]

herm soldiers building boats right so how many will drown :?

[Ichon]

ok, that definitely makes more sense. i didn't consider that could just be a representation of them using resources around them, chiefly 60,000 bored soldiers and wood to create them.

Yeah but think of the turn length... months are going by. In that period a message couldn't be sent ordering a fleet? Also each ship has to represent more than a single boat. Could be anywhere from barges to bireme to a fleet of local fishing boats. MTW2 engine isn't sohpisticated enough to really deal with the logistics so its abstracted enough otherwise you get into Paradox style games where you have to plan the logistics ahead of the campaign which is realistic to an extent but is that something you want to do in MTW2?

[Julianus]

I'm not sure if this is possible or already suggested, but I'll be glad to see the "size effect" of an army simulated in some way. By this I mean a huge army is much more difficult and expensive to maintain than when it is separated into several smaller columns, and as its size increases, it becomes more cumbersome and marches slower. This will force you to disperse your forces and only concentrate them when preparing for a massive battle ahead, instead of always running around the map at the head of a full stack.

[TheLastDays]

This sounds good, although I doubt, that it's possible in the limits of the engine, to accurately simulate that...
What could be possible is attrition, it was a "feature" in crusaders armies, so maybe it could be implemented to simulate long marches without supply lines...

[moonburn]

herm julianus in mtw2 if you separate your armies 10/20% of them will rebel depending on your faction leader influence so spliting armies will be a dangerous game

[war is hell]

The one thing I would like to see in EB2 is the ability to establish new homelands for my people. Like say I'm playing Sweboz and want to recreate the cimbric migration, will it be possible to colonize other lands and recruit factional troops?

[fomalhaut]

i've seen this done manually (Arche to Britain of all people and places :P) so perhaps a script can do this as well? i've always felt limited in this regard, like im sure after 100 years under Roman Hegemony Iberia felt like a true part of the Empire? perhaps like a 50 turn migration type of thing like the nomads can do, after a certain amount of x population of x culture build x amount of cultural buildings?

[Foot]

i've always felt limited in this regard, like im sure after 100 years under Roman Hegemony Iberia felt like a true part of the Empire?

Well other than it took the Romans about 200 years to subdue the local inhabitants. And it certainly did feel like part of the empire, but that certainly doesn't mean you could recruit italians there.

Foot

[fomalhaut]

but the concept of citizen and being 'roman' extended beyond the italian peninsula by that time, correct?

[war is hell]

Well I was thinking more like transplanting Italians to Iberia rather than assimilating Iberians.

Like how long did it take for the Galatians to establish themselves in Galatia to the point where we are recruiting celts there at the EB start point? Same with greeks establishing themselves as far east as bactria.

[Foot]

but the concept of citizen and being 'roman' extended beyond the italian peninsula by that time, correct?

Hence Marian recruitment. Other factions did not have anything similar.

Like how long did it take for the Galatians to establish themselves in Galatia to the point where we are recruiting celts there at the EB start point? Same with greeks establishing themselves as far east as bactria.

The Galations were a migration. An entire population just moving from one place and settling down into another. Transplating italians to Iberia did happen in the form of colonies, but the percentage of italians was tiny compared to the native population. As has previously been previewed, colonies will exist in EBII, and will allow you to change recruitment.

Foot

[fomalhaut]

that's awesome, most people roleplay that anyway so it's nice to see it cemented via mechanics.

[geala]

@ Ca Putt: I don't want to start a discussion about units here, therefore I don't mentioned examples.

What does this mean anymore? History has room for more than one interpretation. That is why when 20 students turn in papers for a single prompt, and none of them answers the same way as any other, none of them fails for the simple fact that they did not achieve a single correct answer. EB has provided us with an interpretation of history that--and it is important to remember this--has not been constant, and has changed over time. I don't take it for granted because when entering in factional unit lists for EB Online I see name changes over and over again for units. Flexibility is a great trait in history.

Surely, I concur with what you said. We have sometimes so few informations that a good deal of speculation is mandatory, esp. for a game and its restrictions. I only had some problems in mind that are possibly caused by the early introduction of some of the Greek/Hellenistic units. E.G. to have peltasts with thoureoi shields and thoureophoroi is such a problem. EB2 should get rid of the peltasts and install thoureophoroi with javelins instead. And a thoureophoros should not have much armour, with armour it should be a thorakites. Or the padded armour of the Cretan archers. The only pictures of Hellenistic time Cretan archers show them without armour, and if armour is given to them because of gameplay reasons (which are important reasons) it should perhaps be one that is more common for the Greeks and at least shown in some ancient illustrations. Or the rather strange Akarnanian attack unit. Or the appearance of the chitones and the Roman caligae of many Greek units.

Small things like this. The possibility of M2:TW units to show more than one appearance will solve many problems and I think the team is aware of the problems. We had such discussions before, no need to warm it up.

[athanaric]

Or the padded armour of the Cretan archers.

I'd rather see a source for the extreme missile range they have in EB I.

Or the rather strange Akarnanian attack unit.

Which unit are you referring to? Akarnania doesn't have a regional special unit in EB I as far as I'm aware of. Perhaps you mean Agrianian?