Pirates, Russia, Somalia...Politics....

[Husar]

I can go on, how about you watch this in the news:

A bunch of guys robbed a bank, are holding everybody inside hostage, demand two million ransom, it's a big bank in the middle of say, New York.
After some bargaining the police goes in, bank robbers give up, noone was harmed, the policemen bring them outside in handcuffs.
Next they make them kneel down in a line and shoot every single one of them in the back of the head.

Is that the kind of justice system we want to live in or that we want to propagate around the world?
To me it sounds awfully like what you'd expect from countries we constantly criticise for their lack of humans rights and subsequently call worse than ourselves.
And the bank robbery with hostage situation is the closest thing to this kind of piracy I can imagine, yet we do not execute them.

[rory_20_uk]

The Russians killed no one. They left the Pirates where they were found.

To use your analogy, outside the bank the robbers had their masks, guns and getaway vehicle impounded and were released to make their own way home, since there are no courts in the area with jurisdiction to try the robbers.

[Louis VI the Fat]

And the bank robbery with hostage situation is the closest thing to this kind of piracy I can imagine, yet we do not execute them.

Indeed.

I think leaving people to die of hunger and thirst in the middle of the ocean is criminal.


The problem is that there is no way to trie the pirates. We can't take them to Europe. It will not only be grossly expensive, but inevitably, we'll never get them returned to Somalia again. Somalia is a war zone, the pirates will have lived in Europe for years if they've served a long sentence. So they will be granted asylum. Then they'll receive a thousand euro benefit for the rest of their lives, be given a house, get to bring over their extended family for re-unification, mutilate their daughters, and hang outside all day long bothering, robbing and spitting at the locals because they don't have any meaningful skills with which to find a job anyway, nor much interest in aquiring any.

And there are only so many million of those we can handle.

Receiving a fair trail in Europe would be like winning the jackpot. There won't be a Somalian left who wouldn't trust himself on any European ship he can get to.
[/rant]



We should really bribe Kenya to let us organise trials for pirates there, to incarcerate them there, and then send them back directly over the border to Somalia at the end of their prison sentence.

[rory_20_uk]

Or Jamaica. Or Burma. Indonesia. There are loads of countries who would love hard cash to look after some prisoners. "Sadly", many might not live to be released from jail, but if they did then yes, send them back home.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Good for the Russians.

Somalia is a war zone, the pirates will have lived in Europe for years if they've served a long sentence. So they will be granted asylum. Then they'll receive a thousand euro benefit for the rest of their lives, be given a house, get to bring over their extended family for re-unification, mutilate their daughters, and hang outside all day long bothering, robbing and spitting at the locals because they don't have any meaningful skills with which to find a job anyway, nor much interest in aquiring any.

That is absurd.

CR

[Louis VI the Fat]

That is absurd.

CR

Welcome to the Euroweenian Union:

THE Royal Navy, once the scourge of brigands on the high seas, has been told by the Foreign Office not to detain pirates because doing so may breach their human rights.
Warships patrolling pirate-infested waters, such as those off Somalia, have been warned that there is also a risk that captured pirates could claim asylum in Britain.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3736239.ece

Somali pirates embrace capture as route to Europe

Somali pirates might be allowing themselves to be deliberately captured in order to take advantage of European asylum laws, Dutch legal experts have warned

Pirates captured after attacking a Dutch vessel have gone on trial in the liberal Netherlands and at least two of them have declared their intention to stay on as residents.
Geert-Jan Knoops, an international criminal law attorney and professor at the Royal University of Utrecht, has suggested that the Dutch trial might encourage pirates to surrender just in order to seek a better life in Western countries.

"These trials may trigger other pirates to let themselves be arrested on purpose," he told the Volkskrant newspaper. "The Dutch Justice department must be cautious. I cannot imagine the five alleged pirates would voluntarily return to Somalia after their conviction."

The five Somali pirates were arrested off the coast of Africa in January by Danish marines after attacking the Samanyulo, a Dutch-flagged cargo ship. But since Somalia has a record of international human rights violations it will be almost impossible to deport the men after their conviction in the Netherlands. "Life is good here," said one of the defendants, named Sayid, about his experience in a Dutch jail.
"I appeal to the government not to send me back to Somalia. The people who live here respect human rights. I wish to settle here." Willem-Jan Ausma, a Dutch defence attorney who is representing another pirate, described his client's relief to be in a Western prison.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...to-Europe.html

[Husar]

The Russians killed no one. They left the Pirates where they were found.

To use your analogy, outside the bank the robbers had their masks, guns and getaway vehicle impounded and were released to make their own way home, since there are no courts in the area with jurisdiction to try the robbers.

If I'm not mistaken they left them but took away all their food and other essentials, that's not just theft (stealing from a criminal wasn't legal last I heard), it's also rather equal to a death sentence, except not done by a judge but decided upon by some russian sailors. And besides, I wasn't just commenting on this case but also on the people saying pirates should always be shot.

We should really bribe Kenya to let us organise trials for pirates there, to incarcerate them there, and then send them back directly over the border to Somalia at the end of their prison sentence.

http://www.armybase.us/2009/11/germa...ates-to-kenya/

Good for the Russians.

I thought you were pro-life?

[Major Robert Dump]

Maybe they should have brought navigation equipment with them. How did they ever manage to navigate in the first place? Did they teleport onto the ship? Maybe next time they will keep their own boat in tow? Maybe they should have driven the tanker in a direction towards home?

Yeah, leaving them was "not humanitarianish."

But really, freaking funny.

They have to be discouraged somehow, and every one of them that makes it home unscathed makes even more want to be pirates.

Hopefully next, navies start marooning them on small islands or, even better, drop them in south america. Now that would be funny

[Pannonian]

Hopefully next, navies start marooning them on small islands or, even better, drop them in south america. Now that would be funny

We can dump them in America or Australia, as we used to do with our undesirables.

[drone]

We can dump them in America or Australia, as we used to do with our undesirables.

Antarctica.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We can dump them in America or Australia, as we used to do with our undesirables.

Thanks for the chuckle.


Seriously though, the only points in history where Piracy has been marginalized are those eras where pirates were considered a common threat and EVERYONE dealt with them harshly. In those by-gone and less enlightened times that meant that most of them met Jack Ketch -- and it was a certainty for any pirate leader.

Now the pirates can a) make a lot of money if the companies make the smart choice and pay rather than delay delivery of a valuable cargo, or b) get caught by naval forces and be 1) sent home to try again, or 2) incarcerated in a prison that provides a better standard of living than you had before you were a pirate and -- because of asylum laws and bureacracy -- may give you permanent residency as a free person in a country with a great standard of living. Into the bargain, they might even pay you for breathing as they do some of their own citizens.

All of us .orgers should consider pooling funds to buy some zodiacs and kalishnikovs and base ourselves in Madagascar somewhere. We're clearly NOT the smart ones.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Thanks for the chuckle.


Seriously though, the only points in history where Piracy has been marginalized are those eras where pirates were considered a common threat and EVERYONE dealt with them harshly. In those by-gone and less enlightened times that meant that most of them met Jack Ketch -- and it was a certainty for any pirate leader.

Now the pirates can a) make a lot of money if the companies make the smart choice and pay rather than delay delivery of a valuable cargo, or b) get caught by naval forces and be 1) sent home to try again, or 2) incarcerated in a prison that provides a better standard of living than you had before you were a pirate and -- because of asylum laws and bureacracy -- may give you permanent residency as a free person in a country with a great standard of living. Into the bargain, they might even pay you for breathing as they do some of their own citizens.

All of us .orgers should consider pooling funds to buy some zodiacs and kalishnikovs and base ourselves in Madagascar somewhere. We're clearly NOT the smart ones.

I just happen to know where we can get our hands on the proper tools befitting our new station. Say hello to my leetle friends...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Kadagar_AV]

Bumping this for fun :)

Cross-read with the Israeli-murder-spree-on-international-waters-thread for a laugh...

[Furunculus]

since your going to bump it, make it relevant by explaining the fun............