[EB] Any help for beating skullhead?

[Danos13]

he usually sets his phalanx right to mine's (when i'm not using the box) and strangely his medium are defeating my elite's. When i'm trying to protect the flanks his geisatai and medium troops defeat my flank troops( most of the time some heavy swordman and a bit of cavalry). If that happens i already know i can't win. In a last desperate reformation i try to make sure that his troops don't get any more into my flanks. That doesn't work and i let most of my units route, so he doesn't get a heroic victory.

[Cute Wolf]

he usually sets his phalanx right to mine's (when i'm not using the box) and strangely his medium are defeating my elite's. When i'm trying to protect the flanks his geisatai and medium troops defeat my flank troops( most of the time some heavy swordman and a bit of cavalry). If that happens i already know i can't win. In a last desperate reformation i try to make sure that his troops don't get any more into my flanks. That doesn't work and i let most of my units route, so he doesn't get a heroic victory.

what is "Elite" troops you refer too? if you means Epeirote Chaoneioan Agema, or Hypaspistai, any Armour Piercing units will made such short works on them... use low armoured units (preferably drapanai if you play as Epeirotes) to pwn them

[Skullheadhq]

what is "Elite" troops you refer too? if you means Epeirote Chaoneioan Agema, or Hypaspistai, any Armour Piercing units will made such short works on them... use low armoured units (preferably drapanai if you play as Epeirotes) to pwn them

I'll upload the replay.

EDIT: http://www.mediafire.com/?wn4y2mw1n2l

[Danos13]

what is "Elite" troops you refer too? if you means Epeirote Chaoneioan Agema, or Hypaspistai, any Armour Piercing units will made such short works on them... use low armoured units (preferably drapanai if you play as Epeirotes) to pwn them

i referred to elite phalanxs

[Skullheadhq]

Just watch the replay, and how did you even find this forum?

[Danos13]

i just went to europabarbarorum.com and saw this forum at links, when i saw your profile i joined to see the thread about my "mighty" box

[Macilrille]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha, just as I said, "your friend is welcome to come and ask for advice as well" or the like. I love it.

No time, might get back to you. Sweboz FTW!!

And welcome, hope you stay, participate and enjoy.

[Paltmull]

This is hilarious!

Anyway:

he usually sets his phalanx right to mine's (when i'm not using the box) and strangely his medium are defeating my elite's. When i'm trying to protect the flanks his geisatai and medium troops defeat my flank troops( most of the time some heavy swordman and a bit of cavalry). If that happens i already know i can't win. In a last desperate reformation i try to make sure that his troops don't get any more into my flanks. That doesn't work and i let most of my units route, so he doesn't get a heroic victory.

Are your phalanxes set to guard mode? IIRC phalanxes fighting other phalanxes should not be in guard mode, as opposed to when fighting other kinds of troops. And don't order your phalangites to attack. Just move close enough and they will engage by themselves. Please correct me someone if I'm wrong.

[Maion Maroneios]

Short answer to your question: impossible. Strategos Skull has experience. Nothing beats experience.

[Macilrille]

If that was so, swordsmasters would never be replaced as such. Which they are, as those they train overtake them; being trained by and fighting against the best always advances you fastest. And in this case Skully, though undoubtedly a good player, got advice from us as well as training/coaching from Fluvius on how to deal with the Noob Box. If Danos listens to advice and recieve training, he too can do it.


Phalanxes are overpowered, so beating them is difficult. But can be done. Especially using the small tricks of the trade that experienced MPs know, but that new guys, including me, do not.


Danos, you might benefit from looking here.

[Fluvius Camillus]

WHAHAH

This is quite funny, I should charge balloons for tactical advice.

Well??

On a more serious note, when I get more spare time I might help you out, if Skullheadhq doesn't mind of course. I might even school you in MP like I did with Skull. Although Cute Wolf's advice will probably help a lot already.

Edit:@Skullheadhq, straks zit je hele klas toch niet op dit forum he?

~Fluvius

[plutoboyz]

Phalanx?
I would bring horse archer, kata, elephant, and some heavy infantry. use saka.

[Mulceber]

Use the... *looking for Sata or Maion arround* MARIAN ROMANS

May I please quote you on this? PLEEEEAAASSEEEE???? -M

[vartan]

Are your phalanxes set to guard mode? IIRC phalanxes fighting other phalanxes should not be in guard mode, as opposed to when fighting other kinds of troops. And don't order your phalangites to attack. Just move close enough and they will engage by themselves. Please correct me someone if I'm wrong.

I'm not so sure. Phalangites can use guard mode or no guard mode. And none of these units 'auto-engage'. When not on guard mode, they like to steam-roll the enemy, auto-engaging if you haven't told them to attack. On guard mode, they won't engage unless you order them to attack. Still on guard mode, only those units disturbed will be reprimanded. Those in next rows in the phalanx will not come forth to attack. In any case, if you have a pike army versus a Roman or other sword army, you better be playing on the Alex engine because the phalanx bug consistently strikes fear into the pike player. With a bug like that, your non-guard mode phalanxes cannot steam-roll the enemy like it should. Instead, it likes to dance to the side, or even backwards. Phalanx bug: priceless...

If anything, the loser of the game deserves more than the winner.

P.S. Skullhead, I'd like to see you on my battlefield.

[Paltmull]

I'm not so sure. Phalangites can use guard mode or no guard mode. And none of these units 'auto-engage'. When not on guard mode, they like to steam-roll the enemy, auto-engaging if you haven't told them to attack. On guard mode, they won't engage unless you order them to attack. Still on guard mode, only those units disturbed will be reprimanded. Those in next rows in the phalanx will not come forth to attack. In any case, if you have a pike army versus a Roman or other sword army, you better be playing on the Alex engine because the phalanx bug consistently strikes fear into the pike player. With a bug like that, your non-guard mode phalanxes cannot steam-roll the enemy like it should. Instead, it likes to dance to the side, or even backwards. Phalanx bug: priceless...

Uhuh, the guard mode is of course a lot more defensive, and should be used to pin down the enemy while flanking troops do the killing. This works great when fighting non-phalanx- units, since they are very unlikely to break through the phalanx formation. Other phalangites, on the other hand, will damage your phalangites - and I was under the impression that using the defensive guard mode wouldn't be very effective against another more agressive pike unit. But I might be wrong, my phalanx experience is quite limited.

The phalanx bug is a pain of course; but since guard mode works fine against non- phalangites it isn't really a problem, in my opinion.

[vartan]

Uhuh, the guard mode is of course a lot more defensive, and should be used to pin down the enemy while flanking troops do the killing. This works great when fighting non-phalanx- units, since they are very unlikely to break through the phalanx formation. Other phalangites, on the other hand, will damage your phalangites - and I was under the impression that using the defensive guard mode wouldn't be very effective against another more agressive pike unit. But I might be wrong, my phalanx experience is quite limited.

The phalanx bug is a pain of course; but since guard mode works fine against non- phalangites it isn't really a problem, in my opinion.

Against other phalangites, you would require more ranks, less frontage, and guard off, to push. Guard mode sword vs guard mode pike is a problem. Your flanks will be destroyed and you will lose the game if you don't use your pikes offensively. Guard mode pikes do not kill. Enemy does not engage, sits in guard mode in front of your pikes. Nothing happens since neither of you engage each other, except for your losses on the flanks. Simple as that. So best thing to do is pray that when you turn guard off and press the attack, that your game won't suddenly become "Michael Jackson: Total War" due to all the moonwalking you will start to notice. Note: music is not included.

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

So best thing to do is pray that when you turn guard off and press the attack, that your game won't suddenly become "Michael Jackson: Total War" due to all the moonwalking you will start to notice. Note: music is not included.

I feel the need to sig this. Does Vartan approve?

[antisocialmunky]

Actually what you need to do with phalanx vs phalanx is to line up the attacking block head on. Otherwise your unit will start turning or shuffling weairdly because its tries to turn to hit the direct center but the phalangites on the edges can't move forward so the hwole block starts spinning or going backwards.

Its not that unpredictable once you get the technique down.

[Paltmull]

Against other phalangites, you would require more ranks, less frontage, and guard off, to push.

Then we agree on that one :)

Guard mode sword vs guard mode pike is a problem. Your flanks will be destroyed and you will lose the game if you don't use your pikes offensively. [...]

Really? Isn't the entire point of hammer-anvil tactics to have the center hold the major part of the enemy forces, while attacking them on the flanks and from behind? Because then you can simply save a lot of money by using cheap levy phalangites - the enemy won't break through them anyway - and then spend much more on strong flanking troops; which will result in the enemy's flanks being destroyed. Your phalangites don't really have to do anything, other than holding the enemy, as long as your flanks are strong, 'aight?

[gamegeek2]

I'd take Carthies over Roma any day - not because I'm a Romaioktonos, but because of three words - Sacred Band Cavalry. Far superior to anything the romans have to offer. Not to mention these:

You have great Elite African units (the pikemen are monsters; the elite infantry are essentially superior legionaries); Iberian Assault Inf and LibyPhoenician Elite Inf to crush other elites with AP secondaries (falcatae and axes, respectively), solid Libyan and LibyPhoenician troops as line infantry, and good African regionals to do ranged work (don't compare to cretans, but Numidian Cavalry are good for dealing with those via javelins)

[Apázlinemjó]

Really? Isn't the entire point of hammer-anvil tactics to have the center hold the major part of the enemy forces, while attacking them on the flanks and from behind. Because then you can simply save a lot of money by using cheap levy phalangites - the enemy won't break through them anyway - and then spend much more on strong flanking troops; which will result in the enemy's flanks being destroyed. Your phalangites don't really have to do anything, other than holding the enemy, as long as your flanks are strong, 'aight?

On the tournament matches that was the thing what happened with "Hellenistic" players. Cheap phalangites could hold the line without problem, so you could spend your mnai on heavily armoured cavalry and hardcore flank protector troopers and assault infantry.

[vartan]

Really? Isn't the entire point of hammer-anvil tactics to have the center hold the major part of the enemy forces, while attacking them on the flanks and from behind? Because then you can simply save a lot of money by using cheap levy phalangites - the enemy won't break through them anyway - and then spend much more on strong flanking troops; which will result in the enemy's flanks being destroyed. Your phalangites don't really have to do anything, other than holding the enemy, as long as your flanks are strong, 'aight?

But your flanks aren't strong. We're talking human vs human, not computer. There is no time to lose. If you don't take initiative you lose the game. The enemy isn't attacking you from the front, just standing there, so you're not guarding or pinning anything. You're just being wasted on the flanks and your horses are being matched and their every move is being watched. Reserves of the enemy are on their toes. You need to push and kill. Only way to realize this? Online battle.

[Skullheadhq]

That doesn't work and i let most of my units route, so he doesn't get a heroic victory.

See how he ruins my fun!

Here is what I did the last time:

He got eight units of elite phalangitai in the standard formation. Then I just lined up my five mixed elite/medium phalangitai in a thin line to keep him busy. Yet I didn't attack him
Thanks to me spending less on phalangitai I could afford more heavy infantry and cavalry. I got some Gaesatae (for shock effect, both for units and player) and some heavy cavelry. All that units I placed on one flank and started moving with it to his smaller non-phalangita infantry/cavalry force that he placed on the opposing flank when he saw my infantry/cav. After a short skirmish I routed that non phalangitai-cav force and proceded to attack his phalangitai from the back. Thanks to my 5 phalangitai standing right in front of his, I could slaughter one unit at a time.


@Fluvius
Ik heb geprobeerd om ze hiervandaan te houden, maar blijkbaar vinden ze het toch, bereid je voor op 28 nieuwe leden :D. En ik heb er geen probleem mee als je wat met hem oefent, dat maakt het voor mij ook weer uitdagender.