Archer unit sizes

**Intranetusa** · 06-03-2010, 18:50

Archers are pretty useless for the most part - they do nothing to phalanxes or any unit with a decent shield.

The only way you will get any kills is if the AI is dumb enough to let their cavalry sit around doing nothing, or they turn their backs on you.

Slingers are far more useful due to the AP bonus against armor.

My levy slingers get more kills than my damn "elite" Cretan archers most of the time.

**athanaric** · 06-03-2010, 21:28

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Archers are pretty useless for the most part - they do nothing to phalanxes or any unit with a decent shield.

The only way you will get any kills is if the AI is dumb enough to let their cavalry sit around doing nothing, or they turn their backs on you.

Slingers are far more useful due to the AP bonus against armor.

My levy slingers get more kills than my damn "elite" Cretan archers most of the time.

Then maybe you're fighting the wrong enemies. By the sound of it, you're only campaigning against Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, and cataphracts. Because everyone else takes more casualties from arrows than from bullets or rocks. If you want to defeat Barbarians, Sabaeans or Nomads - or slingers, by the way - you'd better bring some archers.
Not to mention the much higher tactical versatility of archers compared to slingers.

**Intranetusa** · 06-03-2010, 22:49

Originally Posted by athanaric

Then maybe you're fighting the wrong enemies. By the sound of it, you're only campaigning against Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, and cataphracts. Because everyone else takes more casualties from arrows than from bullets or rocks. If you want to defeat Barbarians, Sabaeans or Nomads - or slingers, by the way - you'd better bring some archers.
Not to mention the much higher tactical versatility of archers compared to slingers.

That's probably true. I'm mostly fighting against enemies with decent armor + shield, so my archers are useless. If I was fighting against unarmored 'barbarized' factions, they were definately be more useful.

**Cute Wolf** · 06-03-2010, 22:57

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

That's probably true. I'm mostly fighting against enemies with decent armor + shield, so my archers are useless. If I was fighting against unarmored 'barbarized' factions, they were definately be more useful.

but remember, sometimes, flaming arrows from toxotai could made big difference in routing time... two or three volleys could made your enemy run in panic (when fired at the right moment)

**Intranetusa** · 06-04-2010, 00:29

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

but remember, sometimes, flaming arrows from toxotai could made big difference in routing time... two or three volleys could made your enemy run in panic (when fired at the right moment)

Well if I want them to rout faster, I'd probably just have another unit of cavalry or infantry - they'd be much more useful overall rather than just having an archer unit for the sole purpose of flaming arrows when their morale is down.

**Demosthenes** · 06-04-2010, 03:23

Actually no. There are only so many units you can effectively attack a unit with, by using flaming arrows, you can use more. With infantry, espacially infantry in the toxotai-price-range, you can't do anything near as effective.

**antisocialmunky** · 06-04-2010, 04:52

Technically all missiles do exactly 1 damage... Some are just more likely to do that damage.

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

Well if I want them to rout faster, I'd probably just have another unit of cavalry or infantry - they'd be much more useful overall rather than just having an archer unit for the sole purpose of flaming arrows when their morale is down.

You have not seen online catastrophic super routs due to the extra morale penalties from a single unit lobbing arrows with an army designed to maximize morale damage.

**vartan** · 06-04-2010, 07:30

Originally Posted by Cute Wolf

but remember, sometimes, flaming arrows from toxotai could made big difference in routing time... two or three volleys could made your enemy run in panic (when fired at the right moment)

That's right. What amazes me is that you can still use flaming arrows after moving the archer unit. It simply doesn't make sense. It would have been so easy to program the archers to lose the flaming arrow ability in a battle after moving them once.

Originally Posted by antisocialmunky

You have not seen online catastrophic super routs due to the extra morale penalties from a single unit lobbing arrows with an army designed to maximize morale damage.

You never cease to amaze when it comes to your technical audacity in battle. This beast of a general, known as Antisocialmunky, brings with him to the field a weapon far superior to the strongest steel. This munky brings with him the knowledge of the inner workings of morale modifiers. If your whole army routs and you've only lost 20 percent of your men, don't be surprised. There are very valid reasons for this...

Let me know when you've found your technical match.

EDIT: Anti do you have a replay (or can make one) showing that morale modifying super-rout? ZCB is curious. I know what you're talking about but it would be nice to have a replay for footage for video purposes.