War on Drugs: Great Failure or Greatest Failure?

[Lemur]

Nice to see the AP pumping out a comprehensive, well-reported piece like this.

After 40 years, the United States' war on drugs has cost $1 trillion and hundreds of thousands of lives, and for what? Drug use is rampant and violence even more brutal and widespread.

Even U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske concedes the strategy hasn't worked.

"In the grand scheme, it has not been successful," Kerlikowske told The Associated Press. "Forty years later, the concern about drugs and drug problems is, if anything, magnified, intensified." [...]

His predecessor, John P. Walters, takes issue with that.

Walters insists society would be far worse today if there had been no War on Drugs. Drug abuse peaked nationally in 1979 and, despite fluctuations, remains below those levels, he says. Judging the drug war is complicated: Records indicate marijuana and prescription drug abuse are climbing, while cocaine use is way down. Seizures are up, but so is availability.

"To say that all the things that have been done in the war on drugs haven't made any difference is ridiculous," Walters said. "It destroys everything we've done. It's saying all the people involved in law enforcement, treatment and prevention have been wasting their time. It's saying all these people's work is misguided."

Um, yes, their work has been misguided. The trillions spent on arresting, prosecuting and housing/feeding millions of non-violent drug users have been wasted. Economically it's like a war that doesn't end, complete with a POW population which we must feed, clothe and house indefinitely.

Are there any politicians talking sensibly about this, or are they all too scared of being called soft on crime?

[KukriKhan]

The Office of National Drug Control Policy says about 330 tons of cocaine, 20 tons of heroin and 110 tons of methamphetamine are sold in the United States every year...$320 billion annual global drug industry...

Just think of the potential tax revenue if "National Drug Control Policy" was about actual drug control. OTOH, what about the careers of and billions "earned" by druggie-catchers and druggie-treaters. Those guys would have to get jobs at WalMart.

[rory_20_uk]

Preaching to the choir. Of course it's a waste of money, and of course it should be legalised (doesn't mean that one gets penalties for actions on drugs). And of course those bankrolled on either side of the dug issue are going to ve in favour of the status quo.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Meh.. Drugs are useless. Only stupid ignorant people will use them and looks like the number of them is still very high. And I agree that the way governments currently fight against it will not solve anything. It will stay big problem even in 2050. Perhaps it might get even worse.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Are there any politicians talking sensibly about this, or are they all too scared of being called soft on crime?

There's Republican Gary Johnson, former governor of New Mexico, to the rescue!

He came out for pot legalization while in office.

CR

[Kadagar_AV]

Meh.. Drugs are useless. Only stupid ignorant people will use them and looks like the number of them is still very high. And I agree that the way governments currently fight against it will not solve anything. It will stay big problem even in 2050. Perhaps it might get even worse.

What do you base that on?

I can give you a huge list of people on this forum who do drugs. Are they all stupid or ignorant?

What about all the famous people who have done great stuff, aswell as drugs. They are all stupid and ignorant?



I would very much like you to explain your view on those who use drugs, enlighten me. I mean, you obviosly have some info, not just PC propaganda, aight?

[Lemur]

Drugs are useless. Only stupid ignorant people will use them [...]

I'd like to quote a great deal of Bill Hicks at you for this statement, but he works pretty blue, lots of bad language. Tell you what, I'll include a "best of" clip under an EX tag at the end of this post, so that if you want to you can dig into it.

Cleaned up quotes:

“No, I don't do drugs anymore, either. But I'll tell you something about drugs. I used to do drugs, but I'll tell you something honestly about drugs, honestly, and I know it's not a very popular idea, you don't hear it very often anymore, but it is the truth: I had a great time doing drugs. Sorry. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids, laughed my *** off, and went about my day.”

"If you don't believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor. Go home tonight. Take all your albums, all your tapes and all your CDs and burn them. 'Cause you know what, the musicians that made all that great music that's enhanced your lives throughout the years were real ******** high on drugs. The Beatles were so ******** high they let Ringo sing a few tunes."

Warning: Contains foul language, multiple f-bombs, NSFW. Do not click at work, next to your mom, in front of your child, etc.

[PanzerJaeger]

Walters insists society would be far worse today if there had been no War on Drugs. Drug abuse peaked nationally in 1979 and, despite fluctuations, remains below those levels, he says. Judging the drug war is complicated: Records indicate marijuana and prescription drug abuse are climbing, while cocaine use is way down. Seizures are up, but so is availability.

Well, from that it doesn't sound like a failure at all. If people are turning more toward marijuana than the hard stuff, I'd call that a victory. I think there is a fundamental misconception based on terminology. Wars are won or lost. They have a definite beginning and end. The war on drugs should never end. The current tactics should change, but we should never stop educating children about the dangers of drug use or trying to stop the importation of "hard" drugs into the country. Marijuana legalization is of course debatable.

Meh.. Drugs are useless. Only stupid ignorant people will use them and looks like the number of them is still very high. And I agree that the way governments currently fight against it will not solve anything. It will stay big problem even in 2050. Perhaps it might get even worse.

Get ready for the onlslaught. I will give you a little bit of back up, though. In my personal experience, drug users have deep social and/or emotional problems they're trying to mask, and IMO, there is nothing more pathetic than that stoned girl at a party who thinks shes hot. The whole lifestyle carries with it a whole lot of unnecessary baggage. The Beatles were heavy drug users as were many other artists like Jim Morrison who died of a heroine overdose, but in reality most are incredibly boring losers. No offense, just my personal observations.

[rotorgun]

I say we should legalize drugs. Then the industry could be heavily regulated, and taxed. There should be severe penalties for their sale to the under aged, or for their use operating a vehicle or machinery, or for using them on the job. The main opponents to such a proposal would likely be the law enforcement industry, which would stand to lose millions, and the drug manufacturers, because the price would drop like a millstone. The alcohol industry is regulated so, and it works fairly well. If enforced properly, the drug use should decline to reasonable levels in time.

[Rhyfelwyr]

A few pop stars (I don't know about music genres, so don't flame me) do not give a very useful insight into how drug use affects the average person. They might get away with it in their very unique line of work, but I would guess you can't really hold down a typical job while stoned out your face.

That is not to say that the War of Drugs was the right approach, but I think it is going to far to say that drugs aren't really that bad. The fact is they cause a devastating cycle of deprivation in the poorest communities, ruin lives, and cost the taxpayer a fair bit as well.

[Kadagar_AV]

A few pop stars (I don't know about music genres, so don't flame me) do not give a very useful insight into how drug use affects the average person. They might get away with it in their very unique line of work, but I would guess you can't really hold down a typical job while stoned out your face.

That is not to say that the War of Drugs was the right approach, but I think it is going to far to say that drugs aren't really that bad. The fact is they cause a devastating cycle of deprivation in the poorest communities, ruin lives, and cost the taxpayer a fair bit as well.

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Sometimes I seriosly wonder if we are even from the same planet, mate.

Just from the people I personaly KNOW in this very small TOWN, I could without an effort mention, say, 50 people who do drugs AND do their jobs perfectly. Some I would claim do their job better with it.

I wont flame you cause of the pop-star comment as you asked not to (guess you even understood you are wrong on your own).

There is SO many people who have done great things, AND drugs.
There is SO many people who have done great things, while ON drugs.
There is so many people, who have done great things, BECAUSE of drugs.

Don't get me wrong though... "drugs" are a bit too large a word. The difference between, say, marijuana and heroine is breath taking, to say the least.

But no matter if we talk about even marijuana as a "drug", there are risks. Just like smoking, alcohol, skiing, hockey, bungey jumping, mountain climbing, walking out of bed... Are we here to be perfectly safe, or to, you know, live?

[aimlesswanderer]

From what I remember about the stats, the "tough" approach has basically ignored the root of the problem - the demand. While there is demand, there will be supply. AFAIK the amount of money spent on interdiction and such dwarfs the amount spent on rehabilitation and prevention, even in Australia. Rehab isn't "tough" and doesn't make for dramatic press conferences, but it has, from memory, been proven to be much more effective.

I think that the drug problem should be treated as a health issue rather than a law and order issue. The priority should be helping people minimise its harmful effects, not throw them into jail.

I remember hearing something about how Portugal decriminalised drugs, and that seems to have worked well. The usual suspects thought Lisbon would become the drug capital of Europe and that everyone would be doing drugs, but that hasn't happened.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, from that it doesn't sound like a failure at all. If people are turning more toward marijuana than the hard stuff, I'd call that a victory. I think there is a fundamental misconception based on terminology. Wars are won or lost. They have a definite beginning and end. The war on drugs should never end. The current tactics should change, but we should never stop educating children about the dangers of drug use or trying to stop the importation of "hard" drugs into the country. Marijuana legalization is of course debatable.

Drug use is subject to cultural trends that usually have little to do with government efforts. When one hard drug becomes trendy, the others are used much less.

Get ready for the onlslaught. I will give you a little bit of back up, though. In my personal experience, drug users have deep social and/or emotional problems they're trying to mask, and IMO, there is nothing more pathetic than that stoned girl at a party who thinks shes hot. The whole lifestyle carries with it a whole lot of unnecessary baggage. The Beatles were heavy drug users as were many other artists like Jim Morrison who died of a heroine overdose, but in reality most are incredibly boring losers. No offense, just my personal observations.

No, I think the bill hicks quote had it right: "laughed my *** off, and went about my day.” Most drug users are indistinguishable from non-drug users aside from a few hours a week.

[Kadagar_AV]

Get ready for the onlslaught. I will give you a little bit of back up, though. In my personal experience, drug users have deep social and/or emotional problems they're trying to mask, and IMO, there is nothing more pathetic than that stoned girl at a party who thinks shes hot. The whole lifestyle carries with it a whole lot of unnecessary baggage. The Beatles were heavy drug users as were many other artists like Jim Morrison who died of a heroine overdose, but in reality most are incredibly boring losers. No offense, just my personal observations.

Drug users have social and / or emotional problems... Could you back that up? Can you SHOW in numbers that drug users have social/emotional problems?

Hey, let's have a deal... I'll even do the work FOR you and say that yes, drug users are more liable to having social / emotional problems...

So you just won? Think again. Have you seen the statistics of PEOPLE WITH SOCIAL / EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS DOING DRUGS?!

Sorry for the caps lock, but it is important to highlight. It is kind of natural that people with these problems seek an escape, and find it in drugs. Only the really stupid ones must not. So before you go on a rant about drug abusers having problems, first really look into how many people that have problems do drugs.

Not as black and white anymore, is it?



To further ado, if you took the misfits (who would be missfits anyway) out of the equation... How many perfectly normal people are you left with who just want to enhance their stimulational receptors once in a while?

[Banquo's Ghost]

I have this overwhelming desire to hand out spliffs to everyone in this thread in the hope that we'll all calm down.

Chill, man.

[Viking]

There is SO many people who have done great things, while ON drugs.
There is so many people, who have done great things, BECAUSE of drugs.

Doubt that.

[Idaho]

I think the prohibitionists are losing ground, but the problem remains that politicians would rather there were 100,000 deaths that they could blame on drugs, than there were 10,000 deaths that could be attributed to their policies.

By which I mean that there is little doubt that we could drastically reduce drug related deaths and drug related crime - but only by accepting that people like to get high, and making it easier (in certain circumstances) for them to do so.

I think it's odd that the natural political response to any new drug is to ban it - regardless of whether it is particularly dangerous. It's the act of getting high which seems to alarm people. This is most strange when you contrast this with the act of getting high on alcohol - which is so culturally acceptable, and indeed celebrated.

There was a famous chef who died in the UK the other year, Keith Floyd. He was famous for always drinking wine during his cookery programmes, and generally 'liking a drink' (he was an alcoholic essentially). Alcohol played a large part in his death. The report from his funeral had the presenter mourning his loss and saying "we'll all raise a glass to him tonight". Can you imagine if someone died of a heroin overdose, the news presenter declaring that we would all be cooking up in their honour later?

[PanzerJaeger]

Drug use is subject to cultural trends that usually have little to do with government efforts. When one hard drug becomes trendy, the others are used much less.

Fair enough. I'm no expert on drugs.

No, I think the bill hicks quote had it right: "laughed my *** off, and went about my day.” Most drug users are indistinguishable from non-drug users aside from a few hours a week.

Again, I can only speak from personal experience. I have hung out with drug users on occasion and found each time to be more tedious than the last. Everything is about the stuff. When are we going to get the stuff? Where are we going to get the stuff? How much is the stuff? How are we going to come up with the money for the stuff? Stephen, can I borrow some money for the stuff? Who has the best stuff? Not to mention the uncomfortable encounters with dealers and the constant fear of getting pulled over. And this is all before the actual use. As I said, from my own personal experience, drug use carries with it a lot of uneseccary baggage. After having to watch some girl's kid while she was on the floor in the other room, the whole lifestyle kind of lost its luster for me. Your experiences may be completely different. Maybe I haven't come across the right group of stoners.

To further ado, if you took the misfits (who would be missfits anyway) out of the equation... How many perfectly normal people are you left with who just want to enhance their stimulational receptors once in a while?

And more power to them. All I'm saying is that I have found that drug users are most often either looking for an escape from their emotional issues or are trying enhance their boring personalities/lives.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Don't get me wrong though... "drugs" are a bit too large a word. The difference between, say, marijuana and heroine is breath taking, to say the least.

I think the fact that I didn't make such a distinction is why you think there is such a distance between us on the issue (why do I sound so formal these days... writing too many essays gah).

Anyway, I'm sure people can get through life on pot (well I think so, don't have any personal experience). Or it can even help people in some lines of work. I don't even think there's much wrong with people doing harder drugs if they want to go out on a Friday night or whatever.

But besides the above situations, there's a whole different world to drugs, where addiction completely ruins lives, forces people into crime, and all other sorts of problems. I don't know about Sweden, but if you travelled round some of the areas round here you would quickly see how serious a problem drug abuse is.

[Vuk]

You are right Lemur, it is a failure. What we have to do now is start using capital punishment for drug possession, manufacturing, and trafficking. That would have results! In fact, it would rid the world of a lot of scum, so we would be doing a double good. Think of all those dangerous drug lords who would never do anyone any harm again?

[naut]

No, I think the bill hicks quote had it right: "laughed my *** off, and went about my day.” Most drug users are indistinguishable from non-drug users aside from a few hours a week.

[Moros]

Hi, I'm moros and I do drugs. I've done: alcohol, pot, mdma, mephedrone (designer/yuppie drugs perhaps better known as meow), coke and various kinds of shrooms. I also did take relatine during exams as I have ADHD, though I'm not using on a regular basis, so I guess I could say I've done speed as well. Though of course with rather different effects than other people.

I do not consider myself to (that) stupid thank you very much. Of course I could be way of and perhaps I am, but I doubt everyone doing drugs is stupid.

Do I think drugs or just pot should be legal? Well it may surprise you but, while I always used to think legilisation would be best, I'm actually not too sure, I'm rather undecided. Taxes wise it'd be a good income and it wouldn't hurt drug quality and hence it'd be safer to use. Information to the custumors would be better and legally enforced. The price of drugs would not neccesarily go down, pot in the Netherlands (where pot is not legal, but personal use not illegal either) often is more expensive to buy than it is in Belgium (where it's illegal). Many drugs are far from dangerous for a person to use and are far from a hazard to other people or society in my eyes. However it's the person that uses it that can be. It's not unusual that people use it because of personal problems, misuse it or abuse it. The person is where the danger's at. If I and some freind eat shrooms for example there always thrustable friends who are sober babysitting us and we never eat more than one portion each. If I do drugs that change my perception of reality, which is something I often consider as wanted effect, I don't go about driving a bike or car or something, no I'm at my place or some quite place in nature. If I do some party drug kind of thing, I know I have to drink enough water, I know I have to know how strong the pills are and I let it test at a lab for it's quality and dosis - there are places in the Netherlands and I believe in belgium as well, where you can let your drugs be tested anonymously, not sure if those exist in the US but they should -,... I do drugs but in a sensible manner and I'm having a good time with it. I've never caused problems. Well there's one drug that made me cause problems: alcohol. Now I don't want it banned, please no. But it's the only drugs that I've had bad experiences with, it's the only drugs that caused me to endanger myself and others. No I didn't get violent or something but it did put me danger when being drunk and trying to find my way home for example. (I always get there in the end, but I could have gotten run over or robbed,...).

Now of course being sensible and with drugs also mean there are drugs you just don't do. Heroin, floories and especially crack for example are drugs I'd never take or do. They are way to addictive and destructive. Heroin is way way better than sex they say, that maybe so but that makes me only not wanting to use it. I mean how many time does a man want to have sex? Well if we had our way we'd be having sex whole day! Imagine how addcitive heroin must be. That and of course the many dangers that go with them.

What I think would be best is not to legalize drugs. But focus the war against drugs against those that are a menace to society. Drugsbarons, dealers and the dangerous drugs like crack. Of course one needs to be strict on drug use during participation in traffic and the likes, but leave the simple undangerous stoner alone. We don't have to fight those that use drugs, lets help them use it an undangerous (for them and society) way. Educate children on the dangers of drugs but not in just a don't do it way. (like some think sex-education should be all about) No in a way that if they do it, they at least would be informed enough not to get themselves hooked or dead. Tell them they can test it for quality and dosis, as we learn or children if you do have sex at least put on a condom in the correct way. Perhaps legal government inspected shops for soft drugs and softer harddrugs might not be a bad idea too as that would put an end to drugsgangs. But with stricts conditions, regulations, quality checks,... I'm not sure. Either way the most important thing that the government should do is inform and making sure people who do use, can do it in a safe way.

[Strike For The South]

Doubt that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_Ellis

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO THROW A NO HITTER?

As an aside I will readily admit my using drugs is a direct correlation with my stern German mother and crippiling social akwardness.

The only perscription is wheat hops and barley

[Hosakawa Tito]

I stopped voting when I stopped taking drugs. I believe both of those acts are closely related to delusional behavior.

- George Carlin

[drone]

I have hung out with drug users on occasion and found each time to be more tedious than the last. Everything is about the stuff. When are we going to get the stuff? Where are we going to get the stuff? How much is the stuff? How are we going to come up with the money for the stuff? Stephen, can I borrow some money for the stuff? Who has the best stuff? Not to mention the uncomfortable encounters with dealers and the constant fear of getting pulled over. And this is all before the actual use. As I said, from my own personal experience, drug use carries with it a lot of uneseccary baggage. After having to watch some girl's kid while she was on the floor in the other room, the whole lifestyle kind of lost its luster for me. Your experiences may be completely different. Maybe I haven't come across the right group of stoners.

The pre-use tedium goes away with legalization. The price would drop, the quality and safety of the product would improve, the acquisition would be safer.

That being said, it's usually pretty annoying than being sober around drunk/high people. Designated drivers have a huge cross to bear.

[Viking]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dock_Ellis

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO THROW A NO HITTER?

one dude and counting, keep up the pace.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

What do you base that on?

I can give you a huge list of people on this forum who do drugs. Are they all stupid or ignorant?

What about all the famous people who have done great stuff, aswell as drugs. They are all stupid and ignorant?



I would very much like you to explain your view on those who use drugs, enlighten me. I mean, you obviosly have some info, not just PC propaganda, aight?

I will not go into details but if someone in your family is attacked by a drug user you might have the same opinion.

[Crazed Rabbit]

You are right Lemur, it is a failure. What we have to do now is start using capital punishment for drug possession, manufacturing, and trafficking. That would have results! In fact, it would rid the world of a lot of scum, so we would be doing a double good. Think of all those dangerous drug lords who would never do anyone any harm again?

So you want to kill Michael Phelps?

CR

[Vuk]

So you want to kill Michael Phelps?

CR

lol, do you think that Phelps would take drugs if he knew that being caught would mean the death penalty? I garuntee you that 99.999% of everyone in America who takes drugs would stop, and only the most dangerous criminals would continue.

[LittleGrizzly]

Honestly If i had to be stuck with a group of people on any drug whilst i was sober Alcohol would probably be my last choice, other drugs may mess people up more in different ways but no drug makes people more childish and annoying than alcohol. It is a huge damn failure a waste of money, lives and resources. I actually remember watching a youtube interview with that Republican guy, I think he should have kept quiet an tried to slowly work towards legalisation/decriminalisation, coming out and stating facts generally isn't a good idea in a democracy, although Im not sure what happened to him, did he quit, not run or was he voted out of office ?

When are we going to get the stuff? Where are we going to get the stuff? How much is the stuff? How are we going to come up with the money for the stuff? Stephen, can I borrow some money for the stuff? Who has the best stuff? Not to mention the uncomfortable encounters with dealers and the constant fear of getting pulled over.

lol, this all sounds familiar, as drone said though, with legalisation most of these dissappear. Even when it comes to drink you can end up shopping around for the best deal...