$1 trillion in minerals discovered in Afghanistan

[Slyspy]

I'm with Frag. You guys who say this is a good thing: Show me a third world mineral rich country in which any significant proportion of the wealth trickles down to the natives. Even if you can, convince me that this can happen somewhere as unstable as Afghanistan.

[Vladimir]

I'm with Frag. You guys who say this is a good thing: Show me a third world mineral rich country in which any significant proportion of the wealth trickles down to the natives. Even if you can, convince me that this can happen somewhere as unstable as Afghanistan.

Enough qualifiers there?

Were they "third world" before or after the resource discovery?

[Husar]

I'm with Frag. You guys who say this is a good thing: Show me a third world mineral rich country in which any significant proportion of the wealth trickles down to the natives. Even if you can, convince me that this can happen somewhere as unstable as Afghanistan.

How many third world countries were US colonies when the resources were discovered? Of course a lot depends on the stability of the country but I'm not sure how much the resources change that, if the Taliban come back they may very well not let anyone else mine there anyway.

[al Roumi]

I'm with Frag. You guys who say this is a good thing: Show me a third world mineral rich country in which any significant proportion of the wealth trickles down to the natives. Even if you can, convince me that this can happen somewhere as unstable as Afghanistan.

Bang on the nail.

Paul Collier's most recent book (just released) is all about this very issue...

Mineral wealth is as near as damn a curse for many low income/developing countries.

[rory_20_uk]

As there is no need to develop anything else and those at the top get all the kickbacks they need from the industry.

The Chinese would simply get a map, mark the deposits and routes out the country. They'd then instigate a plan where anyone unauthorised in a zone close to these places would be shot on sight (1 mile or so either side), ideally paying off whoever controls the land they want to go through. Convoys to get the goods out, protection at the site. Hell, even bring in labour to ensure no infiltration.

The Taliban might be OK with this as it's no interference and hard currency.

[Fragony]

Bang on the nail.

Paul Collier's most recent book (just released) is all about this very issue...

Mineral wealth is as near as damn a curse for many low income/developing countries.

Customefs who bought this book also bought this, or something like that. We are so conned http://www.amazon.co.uk/War-Games-St...ref=pd_sim_b_1

[Slyspy]

Enough qualifiers there?

Were they "third world" before or after the resource discovery?

I think that serves as an answer to my request.

[Tellos Athenaios]

$1 trillion, or perhaps not.

[Beskar]

I heard $1 trillion is the price of a Mars Bar in the Eurozone next week.

[gaelic cowboy]

Once the PIIGYS default and sink the Euro a Mars will then be worth 5 trillion $ cos Ireland will be paying Germany in worthless Paddy Pounds same as the rest of the PIIGYS

[drone]

Not even a tenth of our debt.

[Vladimir]

Not even a tenth of our debt.

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=...l=en&q=usa+gdp

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=...l=en&q=usa+gnp

[gaelic cowboy]

That graph shows GNP bigger than GDP how?????

[Vladimir]

That graph shows GNP bigger than GDP how?????

I'm just sick of people whining about the national debt when we have numbers like that. In theory, we could pay off our entire debt in one year.

[gaelic cowboy]

That is true even Ireland could pay off the debt, however we would have to basically not spend any money for a year thats not gonna happen.

That GDP/GNP missmatch is still bugging me you only get to spend GNP not your GDP so by your graph the USA has the ability to spend more than it makes??????

[Vladimir]

that is true even Ireland could pay off the debt, however we would have to basically not spend any money for a year thats not gonna happen.

Exactly.

We have yet to see how this mineral find plays out. I'm just looking forward to them finding their way into the international market.

[gaelic cowboy]

Exactly.

We have yet to see how this mineral find plays out. I'm just looking forward to them finding their way into the international market.

China is already in Afghanistan in a few copper mines defended by NATO troops, read it somewhere while back so the USA can forget about getting the majority of the contracts.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I heard $1 trillion is the price of a Mars Bar in the Eurozone next week.

Hmm that doesn't look good for the USA, does it?

[Vladimir]

Hmm that doesn't look good for Scotland, does it?

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1

Fixed.

[Centurion1]

Slypsy how many mineral rich countries had a direct us, boots on the ground, presence?

[Beskar]

Not really something to be sprouting when Afghanistan is getting worse, Cent.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...c/10356741.stm

[Slyspy]

Slypsy how many mineral rich countries had a direct us, boots on the ground, presence?

Sorry, does that make a difference?

[Fragony]

Slypsy how many mineral rich countries had a direct us, boots on the ground, presence?

What do you think is going to happen when they are supplied with high-tech from China and Russia to secure these recources, and they will. This is going to be 100% hell on earth, if it wasn't already.

[Centurion1]

Of course there's a rise in violence.
aa there's a war
B the terrorists see weakness right now and now Obama ain't gonna make as large a commitment as bush would have to the war.

But the kind of violence that was occuring before the invasion is declining there sure aren't as many stonings in soccer stadiums now.

Yes slypsy it does matter. Because whatever you say about us this will be attempted to deal with fairly, while I am not a fan of this concept it might be best to nationalize the industry ain a nation as effed up as afganistan. Then again the national government is as corrupt as the rest of the country.

Frag no idea what your talking about.

Personally if we really want to make afghanistan a success we should institute it as a territory of the us and use draconian law to keep the peace.

[Tellos Athenaios]

No of course Obama isn't. He's made more of an commitment already than Bush ever did, or do those extra troops count for nothing?
The kind of violence which occurred before the invasion is still very much present or do you doubt that the Warlords were above assassinating their opponents?

Fragony mentions a scenario which to some extent is already occurring (Chinese exploit some copper mines), which is basically that the local kleptocrats auction off the sites to a foreign investor who then, à la Shell in Nigeria tries to extract the valuables as cheaply and quickly as possible before the local insurgents kill off all miners _again_ and they have to deal with the _next_ kleptocrat. This of course comes at a cost to the Afghans, environment, and of course the value of these sites degrades a lot in the process.

But you may want to read that register article I linked to. It contains some more things to think about.

[Fragony]

Pretty obvious, corporate backing of warlords completily tearing artificial borders apart , how can you not see that comming.

And yes my leftist mucas I know this sounds mighty stupid as that goes on everywhere.

[Centurion1]

Tellos so What he made a surge. He also made a wothdrawaltable which IMO in a situation like this is very foolish. At least to go public with-it.


Frag at least there would actually be something to exploit, plus to properly mine you need infrastructure and Afghans could certainly use some

I'm not saying this is is going to be a good thing for Afghanistan just that it could be

[Fragony]

Tellos so What he made a surge. He also made a wothdrawaltable which IMO in a situation like this is very foolish. At least to go public with-it.


Frag at least there would actually be something to exploit, plus to properly mine you need infrastructure and Afghans could certainly use some

I'm not saying this is is going to be a good thing for Afghanistan just that it could be

It COULD be good for Afghanistan as a country, but you shouldn't think in nations that's a western concept it's useless, in reality it exists only on a map.

[Centurion1]

Don't say ridiculous things. Nation is not a uniquely western concept.Afghanistan does not represent the entire eastern hemisphere

[Fragony]

Don't say ridiculous things. Nation is not a uniquely western concept.Afghanistan does not represent the entire eastern hemisphere

What is so rediculous about it